Topic: Green Gryphon Inn - opinions

[Tommi]

I think that opinions etc should not be in error thread...

Few of my own:

This is good source book for GM starting a new party. I rarely start with 1-2 lvl char but IF I do this would be easy start for a new campaign.

I like the town, maps (town and floorplans) and other info (including NPCs) - I can drop it in my game in case I need small rivertown (in my current game in Gaalt).

My complains have been answered: messangers are now dangerous.
This leads to a question: How does one become a messanger? At what age are they recruited, or are they bred from childhood? Where are they recruited/kidnapped?
If they are recruited how do they sell the job? I can easily see the lure for the priests but messanger's job...

[Terry K. Amthor]

I think that opinions etc should not be in error thread...

Few of my own:

This is good source book for GM starting a new party. I rarely start with 1-2 lvl char but IF I do this would be easy start for a new campaign.

I like the town, maps (town and floorplans) and other info (including NPCs) - I can drop it in my game in case I need small rivertown (in my current game in Gaalt).

My complains have been answered: messangers are now dangerous.
This leads to a question: How does one become a messanger? At what age are they recruited, or are they bred from childhood? Where are they recruited/kidnapped?
If they are recruited how do they sell the job? I can easily see the lure for the priests but messanger's job...

Thanks Tommi, and you beat me to starting a more general feedback thread. 

Good question about the Messengers. I would say that they are taken/kidnapped from childhood and 'programmed' by priests and trainers, indoctrinated into the ways of the Unlife at an early age, and made into essentially sociopathic killing machines. They come from all over; it is likely that they are not assigned to the exact same area as they were taken from, because there should be no chance of them meeting family later in life.

[egdcltd]

One thing that's good about the supplement is, although it is technically Shadow World specific, it should be pretty easy to adapt it to other settings.

[Hurin]

Haven't had too much time with it yet (it is marking season!), but I already see things I really like, including the local encounter table (makes winging it as a GM much easier!), the maps of Gryphonburg and the Inn (I have a map fetish), the master NPC/creature table, the descriptive text of the NPCs, the awesome picture of a troll, and of course the Mycenean tomb

[Terry K. Amthor]

Haven't had too much time with it yet (it is marking season!), but I already see things I really like, including the local encounter table (makes winging it as a GM much easier!), the maps of Gryphonburg and the Inn (I have a map fetish), the master NPC/creature table, the descriptive text of the NPCs, the awesome picture of a troll, and of course the Mycenean tomb

[JohnnyR]

Excellent stuff!
What stands out initially is the art. This is gorgeous art, even better than Xaar and Emer III. Please keep Mr. Craig John doing more art. I don't mind paying more for work this good. Love the cover (it's so in-your-face), the 1st page art, the corpse candle/lantern (great for showing your players what they're up against), etc; even the smaller architectural pix are useful; an excellently done scene of the interior of a tavern/inn (I've been needing one for a long time).
The writing is well done, as usual (NPCs, locations, even what's on the menu). Great low level adventures which can easily be scaled up with tougher enemies or a greater number of the same. Clean layout as usual. Very useful encounter table.
Now for the bad:  More art (especially of the main NPCs)! More adventures!

[Terry K. Amthor]

Thanks all, and don't forget to do a review on RPG now (even if you cut and paste what you said here!).

Given that this blew up to over 80 pages when I had originally intended it to be a little adventure module like the old Tales of the Loremasters, how did it work? Should I have gone for something smaller? And the 'GM read text': was it helpful, or superfluous?

[JohnnyR]

Thanks all, and don't forget to do a review on RPG now (even if you cut and paste what you said here!).

Done!

I'm glad it "blew up!" This module is not long in my opinion. NPCs, locations, plots, etc. need to be detailed, just not exhaustively.
GM narration is helpful because it brings the author's "physical" POV to the GM and PCs. If someone doesn't use it as intended, it still has the descriptive element for the GM.
 

[RandalThor]

Good question about the Messengers. I would say that they are taken/kidnapped from childhood and 'programmed' by priests and trainers, indoctrinated into the ways of the Unlife at an early age, and made into essentially sociopathic killing machines. They come from all over; it is likely that they are not assigned to the exact same area as they were taken from, because there should be no chance of them meeting family later in life.

Another way to go would be that there is a group of priests that go out searching for the few individual youngsters who have a "special quality" that would make them a great candidate for becoming a Messenger. This special quality could (should) be the fact that they are naturally born sociopaths. For only one who truly does not care about anyone or anything could dedicate their life to the destruction of all life. This could be used in a story about trying to save a child from the priests - before indoctrination - only to have that child kill someone (a sibling, parent, "friend", etc...) after being returned home. This could bring up all manner of drama/conflict for the PCs, particularly if they are heroic and not just mercenary.

This is a welcome addition to my RM/SW collection and I cannot wait until I can get it in physical form (nothing like holding the book in your hand, I believe). I also agree that the size is not a problem, I like more/bigger so getting "blown up" was only a good thing.

My only complaint is the cultural/architectural style presented (and to a lesser degree, the way magic is said to be perceived by the people of the world, but that has been hashed* out on the message boards to death). To me Kulthea is a High Fantasy setting, not some Middle-Ages Europe with magic and monsters as so many settings are, such as Greyhawk and The Forgotten Realms. This means, architecturally it should be more like ancient Mesopotamia and Assyria, with the added element of being a magical world, as well as one filled with dangerous creatures, some of which fly. (A great example is the city-state of Tyr, seen here: http://s1230.photobucket.com/user/zedecksiew/media/tyr1.jpg.html, though not everywhere is hot and dry, so some extrapolation for the more temperate and cold climates would be needed. Another great example, from one of your own products is the Dragonlord Citadel in NE Jaiman; that place was/is awesome.)

So please, can we get more of that into the art (& maps & description & character images) and less of the typical fantasy stuff that is out there now.


*OK, to be completely fair, so has the problem I am bringing up here, but I just felt    I needed to restate it.

[Terry K. Amthor]

Thanks! We want all feedback, good and bad--as long as it is constructive and helps us make the next book better of course! I was trying a few new things with Gryphon and want your feedback

And now, the very much bigger, more detailed and beautiful Eidolon is about to rise, maybe in May!

[DragonReborn]

To me Kulthea is a High Fantasy setting, not some Middle-Ages Europe with magic and monsters as so many settings are, such as Greyhawk and The Forgotten Realms. This means, architecturally it should be more like ancient Mesopotamia and Assyria, with the added element of being a magical world, as well as one filled with dangerous creatures, some of which fly.

Sorry, but I must disagree. What you picture here is is absolutely not what Kulthea is to me. Yes, it has cultural centers that are very much High Fantasy, but there are other regions (e.g. Quellbourne or other remote areas) that very much resemble the magically enriched medieval fantasy setting. This is what makes Shadow World such a great place. It spans such a large geographical area that your preferred setting can be easily acomodated.

This entire hemisphere should not be reduced to a limited architectural and cultural view.

[Hurin]

Thanks all, and don't forget to do a review on RPG now (even if you cut and paste what you said here!).

Given that this blew up to over 80 pages when I had originally intended it to be a little adventure module like the old Tales of the Loremasters, how did it work? Should I have gone for something smaller? And the 'GM read text': was it helpful, or superfluous?

I'm glad it blew up in size-- more is better to me. I also liked the GM read text, especially for the personal descriptions. I would even like to see it extended to some more of the major locations, to help build the drama for any significant encounters.

Just my 2 cents though.

[kyussopeth]

about the Messengers. I would say that they are taken/kidnapped from childhood and 'programmed' by priests and trainers, indoctrinated into the ways of the Unlife at an early age, and made into essentially sociopathic killing machines. They come from all over; it is likely that they are not assigned to the exact same area as they were taken from, because there should be no chance of them meeting family later in life.

Awesome I'm on the same wave length there. In my games they are so thoroughly conditioned that torture doesn't even make them spout BS just to stop it. They just tell you you're doomed as you torture them. Also they can't be made to betray the Unlife regardless of magical influence the most you can do is stop them temporarily.

[kyussopeth]

Also i have a version of the Green Gryphon in my campaign already. Just so I can keep from retconning give me the names of a bartender/server or two & the owner. I'll be running my group through the GG on tuesday or next week & I'm waiting for the hard copy to buy.

[Atouk McMarrin]

My chime in, however belated...

I've really enjoyed reading through the Green Gryphon. The layout works well with the content; there's a solid table of contents; and the narration text seems to add the right touch of atmosphere.

As far as content goes, the adventures and plot hooks look like they're either readily usable as they are or easy enough to scale as needed. There's also plenty more background material which is complete enough to hang personalized stories on and partial enough not to intrude.

Now, for the harder (and entirely subjective) critique...

I'm not much of a fan of rendered graphics used as illustrations. I'm more partial to B&W line art, and I think quite a few of the images could have been improved by passing them through a few filters. That said, I'll take the illustration of the Orgosian Moor as my favorite and "Along the Greenway" as runner up.

Also, a quibble on the scale of the Blue River and the bridge: They seem a bit undersized, at least from how I imagined them. For example, the Arno where it flows through both Florence and Pisa is about 100 meters wide. I thought of the Blue River more on the scale of the Po since it is such a lengthy, major waterway with a large drainage basin (the Po is also navigable by barges).

[Terry K. Amthor]

My chime in, however belated...

I've really enjoyed reading through the Green Gryphon. The layout works well with the content; there's a solid table of contents; and the narration text seems to add the right touch of atmosphere.

As far as content goes, the adventures and plot hooks look like they're either readily usable as they are or easy enough to scale as needed. There's also plenty more background material which is complete enough to hang personalized stories on and partial enough not to intrude.

Now, for the harder (and entirely subjective) critique...

I'm not much of a fan of rendered graphics used as illustrations. I'm more partial to B&W line art, and I think quite a few of the images could have been improved by passing them through a few filters. That said, I'll take the illustration of the Orgosian Moor as my favorite and "Along the Greenway" as runner up.

Also, a quibble on the scale of the Blue River and the bridge: They seem a bit undersized, at least from how I imagined them. For example, the Arno where it flows through both Florence and Pisa is about 100 meters wide. I thought of the Blue River more on the scale of the Po since it is such a lengthy, major waterway with a large drainage basin (the Po is also navigable by barges).

Thanks for your input! The rendered graphics seem to inspire a love/hate reaction. I personally love them, especially when well done like Craig's. My old crude ones are another story. And about the river... I have been to Florence and seen the Arno from the Ponte Vecchio, and it is much larger than I envision the Gryphon to be

[Terry K. Amthor]

Review of GG...

http://roleplayerschronicle.com/?p=45972

[Terry K. Amthor]

Some great reviews coming in for Green Gryphon! But we can't seen to crack the #1 sales spot...

http://www.rpgnow.com/index.php

[egdcltd]

Some great reviews coming in for Green Gryphon! But we can't seen to crack the #1 sales spot...

http://www.rpgnow.com/index.php

I think that's because of the inaccurate publication date. I believe that RPGNow ranking uses how long a supplement has been out in the formula, and its publication date is older than it should be.

[Terry K. Amthor]

Some great reviews coming in for Green Gryphon! But we can't seen to crack the #1 sales spot...

http://www.rpgnow.com/index.php

I think that's because of the inaccurate publication date. I believe that RPGNow ranking uses how long a supplement has been out in the formula, and its publication date is older than it should be.

Perhaps; I don't know the details of how RPGNow works. GG has wobbled between the #2 and #3 spot for some time now. Nicholas would know better. They also have some arcane calculus for the metal rankings that I don't fully understand.

In any case, thanks to everyone who has bought GG! The hardcopy will be out soon; and as always, please take a moment to review!