Topic: HARP:MERP comparison

[arthurfallz]

I recently purchased HARP on RPGNow, and was instantly sold on buying more products. Back in the day, I played MERP (a lot), and was noting the similarities between HARP and MERP (ie: a rules-lighter, less granular Rolemaster). Several of my players have played MERP back in the day, so I was curious if I could get some observations about a HARP:MERP comparison. What's similar, the same, different?

The most obvious as I can see it is the lack of spell-lists and the lack of setting hardwired. As an aside, how feasible would it be for me to use some of my old MERP modules with HARP?

PS: I understand the Dark Tower (Tolkien Ent.) was pretty ruthless with removing MERP from ICE's hands, but I adored that old system and still own a lot of it - i'd love to keep using some of my old materials. But if discussing MERP is taboo, someone please tell me ASAP!

[Falenthal]

You and your players will need very little effort to learn the mechanics of HARP. It is, at the same time, more detailed and more easy than MERP. You'll see that after a few game sessions.

The most important change is probably the One-Table-For-Everything (well, almost. Combat uses his own tables) and the Attacks-With-Just-One-Roll.

As for compatibility with older MERP products, the stats are impossible to convert. You can use the setting, the adventures, the NPCs, etc. like with any other product, but not the statistics. Only the modifiers related to difficulties of Maneuvers (Perception rolls, Disarm Traps, etc.) can be used without changes.

For a Middle-Earth adaptation for HARP, I made some documents myself I use in my adventures. If you have any interest in them, I can sent you a PM with them.

[arthurfallz]

Send me that PM Falenthal, and thanks!

[Falenthal]

PM sent!

[Ecthelion]

Hi,

I also have some of the old MERP modules and still use them for adventures. IMO a lot of the material can be used, just as Falenthal already mentioned. I would even go so far as to say that you can use the combat stats (OBs, Hits) of the NPCs with little or no adjustments (DB will need adjustment).

A while ago I created two articles that were published on The Guild Companion for a) using HARP in a Middle Earth setting and b) using a more RM- (or MERP-) like combat system instead of the standard HARP combat system. Perhaps this is of some use for you.

[arthurfallz]

Thanks Ecthelion, I will look over those articles.

[Cory Magel]

Interestingly the more specialized spell lists and more detailed weapons charts are what I like about MERP (and therefore RM) over HARP.  If you like MERP attack tables and spell lists I'd be tempted to use the MERP books and pull in some RM stuff to it rather than try to fit HARP into the MERP setting.

[Falenthal]

Interestingly the more specialized spell lists and more detailed weapons charts are what I like about MERP (and therefore RM) over HARP.  If you like MERP attack tables and spell lists I'd be tempted to use the MERP books and pull in some RM stuff to it rather than try to fit HARP into the MERP setting.

There's a taste for everyone! 
I like the scaled spells and group weapon charts from HARP better than those from MERP 

To me, as a Middle-Earth fan, the problem with MERP was that it was more like a D&D in Middle-Earth than a Tolkien work. Too many Fireball-like spells, dungeon-crawler adventure modules, important Tolkien concepts like corruption and subtle magic left totally aside (despite some patches that only added complication, but not the real flavour),...

HARP, being a more modullar game system, allows for greater customization to add in what you feel is important about the Lord of the Rings Saga.
Just my opinion.

[Ecthelion]

Interestingly the more specialized spell lists and more detailed weapons charts are what I like about MERP (and therefore RM) over HARP.  If you like MERP attack tables and spell lists I'd be tempted to use the MERP books and pull in some RM stuff to it rather than try to fit HARP into the MERP setting.

And - for the part of the attack tables - that's what the more RM- (or MERP-) like combat system for HARP, which I mentioned above, does.

[Cory Magel]

Interestingly the more specialized spell lists and more detailed weapons charts are what I like about MERP (and therefore RM) over HARP.  If you like MERP attack tables and spell lists I'd be tempted to use the MERP books and pull in some RM stuff to it rather than try to fit HARP into the MERP setting.

There's a taste for everyone! 
I like the scaled spells and group weapon charts from HARP better than those from MERP 

To me, as a Middle-Earth fan, the problem with MERP was that it was more like a D&D in Middle-Earth than a Tolkien work. Too many Fireball-like spells, dungeon-crawler adventure modules, important Tolkien concepts like corruption and subtle magic left totally aside (despite some patches that only added complication, but not the real flavour),...

Ahhh, yes RM is a bit too magical for Middle-Earth.  I can see how the more limited selection of spell options actually fit better in that case.

[Mando]

If you remove some (casting elemental energy spells) professions (maybe keeping them as NPCs), remove some specific spells involving magical movement and invisibility, and then give a strong proeminence to herbs over healing spells, then you can think you go into the right direction of adapting HARP magic to ME. You will be missing corruption (easy to add with ideas taken from other RPGs).

For me, Middle Earth can be played with moderately powerful spell casters as PJs, and the MERP adventures can be adapted and rejuvenated with a little work.

I went a bit further and removed some "evil" and "dark" spells from the PJs' lists (putting them into the ennemy's specific casters' lists), and my players seem to have liked it for a few years. I have had more work finding and building a good combat system to HARP than adapting HARP magic to ME.

[Alwyn]

Several years ago, I ran a Middle Earth campaign using HARP.  I used the MERP/RM modules but either used the HARP stats for monsters, or winged it for certain monsters and NPCs.  My players at the time really liked using HARP since it gave them more options to diversify than MERP did.  They really liked the ability in HARP to multiclass versus straight class progression as in MERP.  I had to convert the AT and DB values a little.  The hardest part was redoing the spells for any major NPCs I wanted to convert.