Topic: Counterspell V.S Magic Items and Demon Abilities

[lostsendhelp]

Is it possible to use counterspell to stop the effects of magic items? If so how do you work out item level and other details?
An example would be, a Nasuai has an item that allows it to long door 100 feet and it tries to use it to get close enough to another mage to use its soul burn ability on him. In a desperate attempt not to die the mage tries to counterspell the long door spell from the item. If that is not possible then the mage would love to try and counterspell the soul burn if possible. If countering the soul burn is possible how would it be worked out?

[Turbs]

something very similar just came up for me in our last game,
A rune trap to be precise that would trigger an elemental wall when touched.
The mage who found the trapped rune wanted to disable it. he had counterspell but not dispell magic. so the question came up "Could he trgger the rune then counter its casting effects?"

[Thom @ ICE]

I would not permit counterspell to block a magic item or a racial ability.
I would permit it to block a rune as it is activated or casting a spell from a scroll.


A Racial ability would not be impacted as it is not a casting. The counterspell disrupts the casting.
Similarly a magical item has nothing to disrupt - it is an effect.
The rune however is activated and then the spell is "cast" by the rune (at least that's how I play it) and similarly a scroll is casting the spell from a scroll text. 


If this doesn't work for your game feel free to change it. I don't think that any use would be abusive, though it does need to be played out consistently. Since many of the racial abilities and magic items may not activate a specific spell effect, therefore it becomes very difficult to resolve the counterspell.

[Bruce]

Aren't runes when activated, instantaneous spells? If so in the description of Counterspell it says this: "When used it attempts to disrupt the matrix of magical energy being formed by another spell user." How hard is it to counterspell an instantaneous spell?
I would think then if someone would try using counterspell to disrupt the instantaneous casting of a rune it would be at a great difficulty, very hard (-60) or higher, and only if they knew it was going to happen.
Timing would be essential. "Who wants to try and grab the cheese from that mouse trap?"
IMHO.
Bruce

[GrumpyOldFart]

A Racial ability would not be impacted as it is not a casting. The counterspell disrupts the casting.

It sounds like the distinction between "racial ability" and "blood magic" could be crucial here.

[Thom @ ICE]

CoM describes Blood Magic as "merely using magic" which I would classify the same as Racial Abilities - no counterspell possible.  It is NOT spellcasting.


The Counterspell is itself instantaneous.  Since there are no rules preventing use of Counterspell on an Instantaneous Spell, I would permit it - and also permit it to be used for stopping Runes.

[Bruce]

The Counterspell is itself instantaneous.  Since there are no rules preventing use of Counterspell on an Instantaneous Spell, I would permit it - and also permit it to be used for stopping Runes.

True, I didn't think of that. Wouldn't it be fair to assume that counterspelling an instantaneous spell is a little harder than counterpselling a non-instantaneous spell?

Bruce

[Thom @ ICE]

Then it would be easier to counterspell a longer spell and that's not how it works.
I'd just stick with the way it is and not add extra penalties if you are going to use Counterspell.

[Bruce]

That's not how I saw it.
That is unless all the person doing the counterspell is only throwing random essence (magic) fluctuations at the target, then yes I agree. But I always looked at it as the counterspell had to manipulated differently to counter different spells, but now that I think about it that would be to complex.

Bruce

[Thom @ ICE]

If that were the case (different manipulation for different spells) then you should be able to specialize in your casting of the Counterspell. 


As a personal comment - I don't like Counterspell and avoid using it in gameplay.  If someone can cast a spell then they should be allowed to try to cast it.


If you want to disrupt someone's spell casting then do it by impacting their spellcasting styles to negatively impact their spellcasting roll (silence, binding, etc.), or create spells that block their access to the mana (preferably separate versions need to be learned to block each form of mana access) if you must.

[Marrethiel]

As a personal comment - I don't like Counterspell and avoid using it in gameplay.  If someone can cast a spell then they should be allowed to try to cast it.


If you want to disrupt someone's spell casting then do it by impacting their spellcasting styles to negatively impact their spellcasting roll (silence, binding, etc.), or create spells that block their access to the mana (preferably separate versions need to be learned to block each form of mana access) if you must.

I agree, Counterspell is too limited in Rolemaster and unless well prepared not worth it. It is best to stop spell casters with Shrapnel Crits.   
For this reason I'd let it be used against the spell a rune or magic item casts. Ie sword that shoots lightening bolts. After all, the alchemist making it imbeds the lightening bolt spell in the first place.