Topic: Converting Old Codex spell with the revised spell creation system

[Wapin]

Hi,

I'm trying to convert some spells form the "old" Codex with the revised spell creation system.
The result seem weird...

For example : Elemental Line
Aspects : Create (30) + Elemental (15) + Shape (15 ; the AoE is not a circle) = 60
Attributes : Casting time : normal (0) + Range : Self (5) + AoE (10 ; the AoE 25'*2.5' is less than 5' radius) + Duration : Instant/No duration (5) =  20
Base PP cost = (60+20)/20 = 4 (Less than Elemental bolt !)

In "old" harp, base PP cost are 4 for elemental bolt and 6 for elemental line
In revised harp elemental bolt base cost is 5 (+1) and my conversion of elemetal line has a base cost of 4 (-2).

So did i miss something in my conversion ?

Thanks

[sunwolf]

I haven't tried re-costing this one yet, though I have done all the Druid spells.
Off the top of my head I think you may need to add cloud 15 because it affects everyone in the area which will bump it up to at least 5PP.  I will run through all the numbers later, but not tonight, my wife wouldn't be amused by that as an anniversary date.

[sunwolf]

Went through elemental line yesterday on break at work.
You should change Aspect of Elemental (15) to Element (5) and add Harm (5) everything else seems correct so that makes it 75/80 for 4 PP
Yes it is Cheaper than Elemental Bolt but it does have Drawbacks as well as advantages.
Range is only 25' whereas Elemental Bolt has range 100'
Can hit multiple targets but your character will need to be in the front of the party to avoid hitting his own folks and will most likely be in melee after casting the spell.  For my games I have officially defined a line as equiv to 5' radius for spell calculations with base of 25' long.
Also increasing size of attack should be +2PP and increasing area of effect to 10' longer should be +2PP

Also did Elemental Cone two ways.
First way reduced cone size to 20' long with 10' at widest point, based on cone size in Breezes I make this the default and assigned it equivalent to a 10' radius (Yes it fill up less than a true 10' radius but this is magic not physics).  At this size it came out to 5PP.
I decided for every 10' + length of cone the base should expand 5' (not 2' as in the spell) so the cones don't get narrower.
Setting the cone size to 30' long and 15' wide the spell comes out at 6PP.
Again +2PP to increase attack size, and +2PP to increase cone length by 10'  This spell has the same types of advantages and disadvantages as Elemental Line, short range and you need to be in front to avoid hitting your comrades.

I consider that Elemental Bolt and Elemental Ball are more refined spells with better range than these two, but Elemental Line and Elemental Cone can get you power for cheap.

Of course I could argue that the base line aspect should either be shorter or more expensive because in actual use a 5' radius (put at the center of 3 5' hexes) would affect 3 people and a 25' line would affect up to 5, but until someone official weighs in I would use the 5' radius cost for the base line.

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

In the build work for HARP Bestiary,  we have been calculating how cones etc will work. When I get a chance,  I will rework a sample cone spell. Some of the Codex spells will appear in Something Wicked; others will await more relevant sourcebooks.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[sunwolf]

Nice to know that some of the Codex Spells will be making an official Reappearance down the line.
In the meantime I'm going to continue recosting some of them for my personal use and others amusement.

[sunwolf]

I have recosted most of the new Spells for the Adventurer's Sphere, still have Poison Lore, Scattershot, and Sound Dampening left to do.

I have recosted All of the new spells for the Druid Sphere increasing durations, Ranges and AoE use PP scaling as in CoM changed scaling options are listed:
Animal Shifting BMC7  Change Forms and Creature shifting now cost +7PP
Beast Staff BMC8  Attack Animal is +4PP
Carnivorous Plant BMC9  Additional Snapper Heads +4PP per head, increasing Head OB +5 is +1PP, +10' to Reach is +1PP
Creeping Mist BMc9  Increase Mist is +1PP
Druid Staff BMC13 no scaling options changed
Expand Wood BMC4  Increase Expansion +4PP
Grappling Mist BMC6  Personal Immunity +3PP, each extra attack +4PP
Mist Phantom BMC8 control Mist phantom (verbal commands) +8PP
Nature's Awareness BMC4
Nature's Passage BMC3  Include possessions +3PP, increase movement speed (per +1'/rnd) +3PP
Sleep Mist BMC8
Tangle Vines BMC7
Thorn Blast BMC6  This spell I had to actually modify not just re-cost.  It works like an Elemental Bolt in its base form now causing a Tiny Puncture critical instead of 1 pt of damage.  The Thorn Storm option has been replaced by allowing the attack size to be scaled up for +2PP/Size representing multiple thorns hitting the target.  Bleeding Thorn is +3PP, Increase Bleeding is +3PP, Sleep Thorn is +3PP, Shock Thorn is +6 PP and if the target fails the Magic RR they take a medium Electrical Critical (this can't be increased)
Thorn Wall BMC6  Built as if building an Elemental Wall.  Damage is a Tiny Puncture Critical and can be increased for +4PP
Thunderclap BMC6
Web BMC7
Web Bolt BMC5

If anyone is wondering why I did the Druid Sphere first, I like Druids, besides I needed them for the Conversion of my Cyradon game to the new rules.
Besides recalculating their spell costs I have made one other change to Druids.  At 1st level, 7th level and every 7 levels thereafter Druids pick an Outdoor skill to add a +10 bonus, no skill may get more than a +30 bonus.
Note Thorn Wall, Thunderclap, Web and Web Bold came out with the same Costs.

[GrumpyOldFart]

I'd like to get a copy of your work if I can. The only reason I haven't done the same thing yet is I'm apparently lazier than you.

[dren77]

i'm with grumpy. Would love to see your work. we just retooled characters for the new edition, some of the players were cheesed they lost spells. don't get me started on how the lever 13 adventurer felt about reworking his character

[sunwolf]

I will see if I can write up and post the specifics this week.  Won't be tonight, have to take my son off to his Karate test in a bit.

[Wm_Humphrey]

Is there any chance we can see a few more examples of the aspects and attributes for spells from the core book and/or CoM to help with creating our own spells and/or converting spells from Codex? Glowing Eyes and Water Breathing are rather straight-forward, after all. I'd like to see a more complex spell example, like... Deflections, for example. As I mentioned in the CoM errata thread, I have two Shadowblade characters whose spells I'm trying to convert.
Thanks in advance!

[GrumpyOldFart]

Went through elemental line yesterday on break at work.

Let's see, this got discussed...

I think ____ Line spells are going to go away. As written, they're a cylinder, and there's nothing to do with one that isn't already covered by a bolt, ball or cone.

The distinction between those as far as aspects go is that bolts require no shaping aspect, since they're such a small volume. Balls require a Cloud aspect, and any shape other than a ring, circle or sphere, such as a cone, requires a Shape aspect. Presumably you could get more complex shapes by adding more Shape aspects... but I doubt any of them will be the cylinder once called "Line".

[sunwolf]

Been busy so haven't had time to do any more spells for awhile.  Hope to get some done in the next week or so.