Author Topic: SPAM Classic ?  (Read 8395 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Defendi

  • Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,641
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Final Redoubt Press
    • Final Redoubt Press
Re: SPAM Classic ?
« Reply #60 on: December 05, 2011, 12:39:41 PM »
Maybe animalhead humanoids was actually planned to give the SM:P a younger image?

I can speak to this.  The animalhead aliens were solely there to allow PC aliens into a game that was meant to allow for hard sf play.  I had the option of allowing no aliens, aliens that were "realistic" from a hard sf sense, and therefore impossible to play as a PC race, or obviously artificial aliens that could be played as PCs.  After much discussion, we decided to use two of those options, with the artificially created but playable aliens as a forefront.

Bob
The Echoes of Heaven:  Available for HARP and Rolemaster.  www.FinalRedoubt.com

Offline Ynglaur

  • Senior Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 532
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: SPAM Classic ?
« Reply #61 on: December 05, 2011, 01:09:16 PM »
Makes sense, though I'll always prefer more alien aliens.

Btw, a good setting for Rolemaster would be Game of Thrones.  Even younger players would (should) recognize that the GoT setting is rather harsh on its characters.  Lots of cinematics, but lots of fumbles and open-ended criticals, too, so to speak.

Offline Defendi

  • Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,641
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Final Redoubt Press
    • Final Redoubt Press
Re: SPAM Classic ?
« Reply #62 on: December 05, 2011, 02:21:13 PM »
Heck, even I backpeddled on this in a book I'm working on now.  The alien thought processes are probably too alien for many players, but they are close enough that they likely would have worked.  I need to make deep statements on the nature of intelligence to pull this off (and those statements won't happen in the book in question, I just acknowledge that they are probably coming), but I could have tried to go that way, I just don't know if I could have made it convincing.

The transhumanism hadn't really pinged on my radar in 1996, except where it pertains to cyberpunk.  In addition Niven and Wentworth were still putting out animal aliens in books back back then (That was the year The Ringworld Throne released).  (Not that this would have necessarily been a popular decision in 1996 when I started the project, I'm just musing now).  If I were to do the project today, I probably would have used transhumanism to solve the problem and just left aliens as NPC only, so that they could actually be aliens and not humans in funny suits.  I was never happy with the way SM2 handled the transhuman and alien situation, but transhumanism seems to me to be in a different place now.
The Echoes of Heaven:  Available for HARP and Rolemaster.  www.FinalRedoubt.com

Offline GrumpyOldFart

  • Navigator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,953
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Hey you kids! Get out of my dungeon!
Re: SPAM Classic ?
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2011, 10:07:04 AM »
I think I could see the sense in having one alien species as closely related as the Kzinti, just so there is an opportunity for human(-ish, including transhumans) PCs and alien but humanoid PCs to interact on some level, but beyond that I think I'd want to save PC aliens for the truly adventurous. If someone wants to be something like a puppeteer or a kdatlyno, he has to go a bit farther in learning how to think like an alien. But even those, if their air, foods and worlds aren't mutually poisonous, are likely to be of similar ages (within a million years or so) and be competing for the same kinds of worlds in the same area of space. In other words, they probably have a common ancestor at the prokaryotic level.

If you think about it, allowing all your "don't know how to roleplay, but don't want to be a human" types to be Kzinti is a natural fit, like dwarven fighters in fantasy games.

 ;D

Past that, PC aliens are rather pointless. It's the same problem as the centaur or dragon PC taken to the extreme. If the PCs don't share a common default environment, they're not going to interact well on the day to day party level. Sure, you can be a member of a species that lives in the heart of O type stars.... but what's the chance of any interaction with the rest of the party? Zero. Assuming you could make an Outsider or starseed PC, what would be the point in playing it as a PC for more than a few minutes of game time every decade or so (Outsider)? Or at all (starseed)?
You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... Traditional Somatic Components
Oo Ee Oo Aa Aa, Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang... Traditional Verbal Components
Eye of Newt and Toe of Frog, Wool of Bat and Tongue of Dog... Traditional Potion Formula

Offline GrumpyOldFart

  • Navigator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,953
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Hey you kids! Get out of my dungeon!
Re: SPAM Classic ?
« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2011, 10:18:33 AM »
...and be competing for the same kinds of worlds in the same area of space.

Keeping in mind the scale of the galaxy, "the same area of space" could easily be a thousand ly across. Okay, so none of them have made it out of the Orion Spur yet...
You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... Traditional Somatic Components
Oo Ee Oo Aa Aa, Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang... Traditional Verbal Components
Eye of Newt and Toe of Frog, Wool of Bat and Tongue of Dog... Traditional Potion Formula

Offline Vyrolakos

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • OIC Points +0/-0
    • Maritime Games Club (Medway, Kent, UK)
Re: SPAM Classic ?
« Reply #65 on: December 23, 2011, 02:38:44 PM »
This thread is a great read.  :)

It's interesting to see the different takes on playability of alien races, whether that be a furry cat/wolf headed humanoid race or a poisonous atmosphere breathing starfish race.

I always liked the SPAM universe (Dune meets Star Trek meets Star Wars), and I never really thought of the Silent Death universe as being any part of the SPAM universe. They were always different games in my mind. Overlapping in details obviously, but never occurring in the same universe.

The newer 'Privateers' universe was a bit of a turn off for me. It reminded me way too much of the Other Suns RPG. Not that there is anything wrong with furry humanoids. It's just that it looks peculiar without the obligatory Japanese subtitles.  ;D

Significantly 'alien' races are all well and good, but if only 2 out of every 100 role-players wants to spend the time and effort to actually read up on and 'get into the character' of some seriously 'alien' race, what's the point?

I'd prefer to have a Wookie in the party with a happy player, than a (lonely) K'Kree and a completely befuddled player.

Sometimes, 'alien' aliens are better off as NPC's.

Offline Wōdwulf Seaxaning

  • Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 397
  • OIC Points +0/-0
    • HellSide Oso Myspace Page
Re: SPAM Classic ?
« Reply #66 on: January 12, 2012, 01:36:26 PM »
Nice thread. To think I started it asking a question about a new version of SM2 like we got with RMC for RM2. I really enjoyed the discussion so far. Though I'm nearly 40 , I'm in the Star Wars, Farscape , Firefly , cyberpunk & Anime schools of Sci-Fi. The closest I come to liking Hard Sci-Fi is Dune. So the basic idea for the races in SM:P doesn't turn me off , I just prefer the SM2 rules. I'd rather convert Star Wars or even WH 40k to SM2 . Heck I love the RIFTS setting..(I'm not one of it's rules haters either)..so I have no proplem with mixing sci-fi & fantasy elements into my games. I figure ICE will focus on HARP Sci-Fi now, though I do hope that they'll eventually produce a SM Classic game that'd mix well with RMC.
R.I.P. Frank Frazetta
R.I.P. Barry Blair
R.I.P. Drew Hayes
R.I.P. Gary Gygax

Offline Ynglaur

  • Senior Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 532
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: SPAM Classic ?
« Reply #67 on: January 12, 2012, 03:05:18 PM »
A RMFRP/SM:P conversion of Rifts would be great.
I use a modified version of the Palladium setting for my RMFRP games.

Offline Wōdwulf Seaxaning

  • Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 397
  • OIC Points +0/-0
    • HellSide Oso Myspace Page
Re: SPAM Classic ?
« Reply #68 on: January 17, 2012, 01:19:30 PM »
Nice..how has the conversion worked? Just to be clear I'm NOT asking him to post conversions of it as that's a BIG No No. But I would love to hear how the conversion went & if Ynglaur is still running the campain. Ynglaur , I'm assuming it's Palladium Fantasy not RIFTS you converted , right? I like the PF setting all right but wish PB would get around to updating the Yin Sloth Jungles book to 2nd ed.
R.I.P. Frank Frazetta
R.I.P. Barry Blair
R.I.P. Drew Hayes
R.I.P. Gary Gygax