Topic: Switching base lists?

[bones996]

I have a concept for a new character for a campaign we are starting in 2 weeks. It is supposed to be partially geared towards a military campaign & I was considering using a Magent as a military scout. What I was wondering though is how many GM's would allow the Armsmaster base lists to be used instead of the Magent's own list as it better fits in with the character concept & campaign.
Our GM is allowing it on a trial basis, but we were wondering about different ways this could be done as sometimes a professions base lists just don't allow for some concepts if you follow the RAW.

[Marc R]

If it fits with the game, go for it. . .the golden rule definitely applies.

Swapping base lists around is an easy way to create variation, be wary of granting capabilities to realms they normally don't have. . .like allowing an essence mage to learn closed channeling healing lists or giving a priest Fire Law might get out of hand.

[markc]

 If the GM is on board go for it. Modify your game as it needs it.


 In my game I have a specific number of PC ideas and if a player comes up with one I think is viable then I try and make it fit. I do not just allow cherry picking of lists, ideas, etc for concepts.
 The main reason for the above is that some concepts just do not fit even if the story line seems to make them fit.


MDC

[bones996]

Thanks for the input. We wouldn't allow cherry pickin the lists or anything like that as it would get out of hand quickly. This was allowed knowing that the armsmaster lists would now serve as base lists & they couldn't be changed later. Probably didn't hurt that I occasionally GM a session or 2 here & there & I don't want to have to deal with a mess any more than he does
Next will be convincing him to let me try a mentalism-based ranger 

[RandalThor]

Question: Are you switching all the base lists or just some of them? Because, if you are switching them all, why not just play an Armsmaster?

Also, it will take more than just moving some base lists around to make the Magent a more "martial" character. They will need better/lower combat skills costs and maybe change up the professional modifiers a bit, which can only be done at the sacrifice of other skill costs and modifiers.

But, ultimately, rule zero does apply: Do what you want with your game, and above all, have fun. (Or in the immortal words of Abraham Lincoln in Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure, "Party-on, dudes!")

[ToM]

Tinkering with base lists is my favourite way of creating unique character concepts...

[providence13]

It's your game, have fun.

I would only change one (maybe 2 Lists). Otherwise... it's an Armsmaster with Magent skill dev.

About the Mentalism Ranger, I don't think it's a game breaker to change any of the Semi casters Realms. Just think of why the character would develop this way. Get the story and everything else will go from there.
 

[markc]

 I let Rangers be any realm and have changed their base lists as I do not like the summoning lists. I generally give them an option of lists to replace it with with most going with the Wyrd Bow spell list from The Guild Companion. In general I also make only the channeling Ranger worship a Deity but I also allow any game "person" worship a Deity.


 IMHO a very good article on The Guild Companion deals with Non Channeling users worshiping Deities and its benefits. I do not know the exact article or name off the top of my head but it made great sense to me to do so and to allow for some benefits for the worshiper if they meet specific requirements.


MDC

[bones996]

An armsmaster with the Magent skill dev. is kinda what was aiming for, a "sneaky" armsmaster if you will, better trained in sabotage & behind enemy lines actions than a standard armsmaster.
The only other change I might like would be to switch the profession bonus from from Power Awareness to the Athletic group, but thats what Character Law & talents are for.

[Temujin]

I have nothing with switching base lists but we usually dont do it in our games.  However, we allow a few select Training Packages (Protégé in particular) to give some of the mentor's base lists as TP lists, which for semi-spell users, end up costing the same as their base anyway.

[markc]

BTW, which base lists are you wanting to switch?
MDC

[bones996]

The GM thought it would be easier & maybe more plausible to just switch them all. I'm not going to argue since he is allowing at least this much but, I'd like to switch Poison Mastery, Misdirection & Gathering Secrets for Battle Law, Warrior Law & either Armor Mastery or Sense Mastery. I'm going to purchase Sense Mastery anyhow as it makes sense for a good scout to have it.
I thought about converting the Venturer class from the Combat Companion but I'd have to convert it to RMFRP & I bet it would still look like an armsmaster, which isn't quite sneaky enough. Like the lists though

[markc]

 For what you are looking at I might use talents to pump up the stealth skills of the Armsmaster rather than just switch the lists, I also like the idea of reducing the cost of the same realm other profession by using a TP or a special Talent to give you access to the lists.
 The more I think about it if it were my game I would use Talents and TP's to achieve your PC Archtype as opposed to switch the base lists but that is just me.
 Please keep us informed on how it goes with the PC and its power level compared to other PC's in the group.


MDC 

[RandalThor]

For what you are looking at I might use talents to pump up the stealth skills of the Armsmaster rather than just switch the lists,

I agree here. It is how I got my Fighter to be very sneaky - average bonus rolled of about +120 by 5th level: Talents, and Mentalism open spell list of Cloaking.

It sounds like to me you are just going for some sort of specialized Armsmaster instead of entirely new profession, which is where all the skill cost and new spell lists would come in.

To make the guy you describe, this is what I would do:

Armsmaster (Regular), mixed man/urban (+2 ranks in a spell list)

Talents: As allowed, of course.
Outdoorsman (Awesome skill bonuses, and scouts are usually out of doors - even in today's modern world.)
Neutral Odor (Nice to not get tracked as easily.)
Quiet Stride (Duh!)
Subtle (Also: Duh!)
Cloaking spell list (2nd level spell of Shadow grants a +25 to +75 bonus to stalking/hiding maneuvers.)

[providence13]

Keep in mind, some GM's don't allow Talents to stack.
In my games, I wouldn't allow 2 talents to modify the same skill or stat.
I'd ask that you take the better bonus or give you the worse penalty for flaws.
But that's just me.

[markc]

 I also do not allow talents to stack.
MDC

[RandalThor]

Keep in mind, some GM's don't allow Talents to stack.
In my games, I wouldn't allow 2 talents to modify the same skill or stat.
I'd ask that you take the better bonus or give you the worse penalty for flaws.
But that's just me.

I also do not allow talents to stack.
MDC

Which is why I said: "As allowed, of course."

Personally, I think it is totally OK to allow talents to stack. The game is lethal enough (more so than RL, which is an oddity in role-playing games), so having cool, capable characters (c³) is not a bad thing, and even gives the GM an excuse not to "cheat" on die rolls. (As is complained about by many a gamer, with RM'ers a little higher in that percentage, if you ask me.  )

And that was just how I would do it - or allow it to be done, I guess is a better way of putting it.