Topic: RoleMaster 2 Companions and game balance?

[smug]

For me, the presence of the other rough drafts (or, at least, alternative options; they're generally much more advanced than "rough draft", but were never meant to be part of a monolithic ruleset that was centrally selected. They shouldn't be compared to that and thought of as "rough drafts", in consequence, I think) is the beauty of RM2. I apparently don't like the same choice of options others do, and RM2 + companions gives me the ability to pick and mix (while, as it turns out, preferring the base game in any case over the particular choices that were made for the next version).

Game balance, inevitably, is trickier and individually achieved,  in that system.
 

[Green Manalishi]

New on the board here. A long time RM2 and RMSS player. I recently picked up RM2 books (core and Companions 1-3) and I defiinitely prefer fixed profession bonuses (like RMSS.) It is far more balancing, and helps lower level characters too. I do prefer skill to be the biggest determining factor. I do use the 5,4,3,2,1 progression for weapons. This makes anybody with 30 ranks in a weapon formidable, but the Fighter still has advantages (cost of development) Profession bonus, and Stats geared to OB (where a mage will likely have a much lower St and Ag.)


+2 or +3 per level at high levels (even 15+) skewed the skills too high. I understand natural aptitude but someone with 10 ranks should have a higher bonus than someone with 1 rank in a skill

[Spectre771]

+2 or +3 per level at high levels (even 15+) skewed the skills too high. I understand natural aptitude but someone with 10 ranks should have a higher bonus than someone with 1 rank in a skill

Welcome to the boards.  It's great seeing new members join up.

While on paper it would seem that someone with 10 ranks should have more bonus than someone with only 1 rank, there are things to consider such as natural aptitude, skills, and raw talent.  One can practice for 5 years at a task and just not be as good as someone with a natural affinity for a task and after only 1-2 years of training is far better than the one with 5+ years training. 

Take painting for example.  I have been drawing and painting for years.  My drawing skills are pretty good, my painting skills, not so good.  I have books, I've taken classes, I've observed and sought advice from established painters who have been featured in art museums.  I simply do not have the aptitude to paint and no matter how much I try, I know I will never be as good as other people who have been doing it for far less time than I.

The same holds true for Martial Arts, Dance, Foreign Languages, Cooking, Calligraphy, Baseball, Soccer, anything.  Some people just have a natural affinity and are better at a skill/task with little or less training than others.  I like that RM (RM2 in particular) takes that into account and allows for those unique people.

[Cory Magel]

I suspect the preference on professional bonuses largely hinges on what level a given group plays to.  If you only play to level 8-10 you probably want a set, up-front, bonus.  If play to 18-20 you are probably more likely to be interested in a per level or per rank bonus.

[Green Manalishi]

+2 or +3 per level at high levels (even 15+) skewed the skills too high. I understand natural aptitude but someone with 10 ranks should have a higher bonus than someone with 1 rank in a skill

Welcome to the boards.  It's great seeing new members join up.

While on paper it would seem that someone with 10 ranks should have more bonus than someone with only 1 rank, there are things to consider such as natural aptitude, skills, and raw talent.  One can practice for 5 years at a task and just not be as good as someone with a natural affinity for a task and after only 1-2 years of training is far better than the one with 5+ years training. 

Take painting for example.  I have been drawing and painting for years.  My drawing skills are pretty good, my painting skills, not so good.  I have books, I've taken classes, I've observed and sought advice from established painters who have been featured in art museums.  I simply do not have the aptitude to paint and no matter how much I try, I know I will never be as good as other people who have been doing it for far less time than I.

The same holds true for Martial Arts, Dance, Foreign Languages, Cooking, Calligraphy, Baseball, Soccer, anything.  Some people just have a natural affinity and are better at a skill/task with little or less training than others.  I like that RM (RM2 in particular) takes that into account and allows for those unique people.

I'm glad to be here. Wish I found it years ago, though I haven't played in over 15 years. Just getting back into with my two sons (13 and 11)
Spectre, I overall agree with your view, and I wouldn't have a problem if it were 5 ranks still getting a higher bonus over someone else with 10 ranks, but not 1 rank over 10. To me, 10 ranks signify competence in a skill, while 1 rank means just starting out. Example, 1 rank of baseball is 1st season of little league. 10 ranks of baseball would be varsity high school baseball. 20 ranks is Major League Baseball

I like to think aptitude (stats) and profession bonus (using fixed) still make a difference (could still be +30 or more) just not those HUGE difference that +3 per level make, like +60 at 20th

[Green Manalishi]

I suspect the preference on professional bonuses largely hinges on what level a given group plays to.  If you only play to level 8-10 you probably want a set, up-front, bonus.  If play to 18-20 you are probably more likely to be interested in a per level or per rank bonus.

I think you're right. One campaign (RM2) I was in, I had a 23rd level thief, and his Subterfuge skills were thru the roof. Particularly Stalk/Hide was about 180 using the +3 per level. Even getting -100 still meant he was most likely to succeed. If the Gm started giving penalties high enough to make it "sporting" for my thief succeed, then no one else with only a 100 in S&H would ever succeed.

After playing RMSS, and I do prefer the fixed bonuses up front. Helped lower level characters, and didn't get absurd at higher levels. The RMSS campaigns I was got into the 15th to 20th level ranges and there were no issues of unbalanced skill bonuses

[yammahoper]

After playing RMSS, and I do prefer the fixed bonuses up front. Helped lower level characters, and didn't get absurd at higher levels. The RMSS campaigns I was got into the 15th to 20th level ranges and there were no issues of unbalanced skill bonuses

I so agree. RMSS made low level characters funner to play because you would be fairly competent in your professions core skills, and who wants to  fighter that can't fighter a thief that can't pick a lock?  PC's still have lots of low skills to struggle with, but core skills will be 62-100, depending how hark you twerk/munchkin.  But I say this is good and fine, as we only get to game fr and few in between campaigns, and my players wanna be movers and shakers,not peons like in real life when we play..  When the War Troll steps up, they wanna stand toe to toe and have a why to win and re smart of enough tht "toe to toe" is up for definition.

The kids mightlike plying in a modern hood as protectors of a block/community against gang violence and predation: the Mob, gangs, dealers of other gangs, wife beaters and the inevitable street brawl/riot.  This is Merica, and gathered wretched masses are suffering.  Ten Million Ways to Die is  great book get it), but I hope you have or get Fire Arms Law.  What an excellent book.  The Ballistic Impact critical table is a beauty of design.  I beats the snot of those poor PC's wearing it, but typically only bashes and bruised and breaks bones, not ruptures organs like the Ballistic Impact critical table, which if FRIENDLY compared to some of the other crit tbles.  A sawed off is a terrible thing, and the look on their faces when they take 89 hits and a D Ballistic puncture, for another +15 hits and deep bruises for -25 activity for 5 days (add the hits delivered to the time needed to heal roll to increase time needed by severity of blow).

Over the years...well. this site use to have a lot more traffic, but there is  good crowd round here.  Welcome aboard.

More advanced players will create NPC's to be PC's when they get shot/cut/beaten up. 

[Justin]

isn't there a cap to how many professional level bonuses you get? I thought those stopped at lvl 10?

[Spectre771]

isn't there a cap to how many professional level bonuses you get? I thought those stopped at lvl 10?

Agreed.  I thought the cap was Level 20 though.  I saw it mentioned in some other threads.  I know the bonuses do cap at some point. 

Of course, there's probably an optional rule that allows it to extend beyond that, but the key word is "optional"

[intothatdarkness]

isn't there a cap to how many professional level bonuses you get? I thought those stopped at lvl 10?

Agreed.  I thought the cap was Level 20 though.  I saw it mentioned in some other threads.  I know the bonuses do cap at some point. 

Of course, there's probably an optional rule that allows it to extend beyond that, but the key word is "optional"

They do cap at level 20. There were provisions for some skills to continue to get a +1 bonus after level 20 depending on Profession.

We got around that by turning the level bonus into a pool of bonuses that players could allocate when they went up a level. They'd get 30 points and could allocate them into any skill they learned or improved during that development cycle. The minimum bonus was +1 and the max was +3. They could be used on both Primary and Secondary skills, but the total remained the same. This both showed "character focus" when it came to learning skills and avoided some of the strange level bonuses that the Professions created. We never had a balance issue with it, honestly, and some players took characters to level 25+ using those rules.