Topic: Parrying

[calmacil]

It seems strange to me that there's a seperate combat maneuver for parrying.

I'm used to PC's parrying all the time in Rolemaster, unless the NPC is unconcious and they don't need to parry.

My question is..... Do you allow the PC's in your group to parry with all the different combat maneuvers? or does it make some combo's too powerful?
For example ... do you allow a PC to move and attack and allocate some OB to parry?


PS. I think the one maneuver i wouldn't allow any parrying would be Power Strike.

[Thom @ ICE]

Actually, I would have no problem allowing Power Strike with a parry.  It would reflect that the character was fighting defensively, but when he saw an opening he struck  and left himself slightly open.

The only combat maneuver that I would not allow a parry with is Frenzy (from Martial Law).

For anyone coming from an RM background the notion to parry is clearly understood and rarely do they ever have an issue with it.  For those coming from other games - especially those coming from D&D/d20 - the concept is quite new and requires a change of approach.

[jurasketu]

It just a mild restriction. You can't Dodge, Cast Spells, etc AND parry TOO. That's all. You can "move and attack" and parry. You can Power Strike and Parry. Attack is a combat action as well.

[Pat]

To be honest, I've never really thought about this and I find it a great question. To me, I'd allow parry for defensive combat actions but not for offensive combat actions. I would probably define the offensive combat actions as: Charging, Mounted Charge and Power Strike.

I think it would be hard to justify a parry for charging attacks since you are using the momentum of yourself (or your mount) to give you an offensive bonus. To be able to use this momentum to deflect an attack (parry) and then redirect your attack to your foe would be extremely difficult as you would be fighting against the momentum.

For example, try swinging an axe at full speed against a tree trunk. Then try it again but before you hit the tree trunk try knocking a branch or twig out of the way in the middle of your swing. I think it would extremely difficult plus you would have to lose an amount of your momentum even if successful.

[GrumpyOldFart]

I've never tried it against a tree trunk with an axe, but...

Back in the day in the SCA, closing at speed, bastard sword in hand (2 handed). Block the incoming shot high and left (we were both right handed), flip the wrists over so the sword goes from vertical with the "downward" or "lead" edge facing left to horizontal with the "downward" or "lead" edge facing forward. Keep both your run speed and swing speed so that as you pass him, your blade slides down his and catches him in the faceplate.

Done that one. It even worked sometimes. Of course every move has a countermove, so trying it can also get you killed.

[Pat]

But did you lose momentum in the swing? I would guess the answer must be yes since you impacted with another weapon. Even if the impact drove your weapon down the blade of your foe, some force would be lost. I think it would also be fair to say that this feat would be a rarity and is dependant on circumstance. If your foe had performed a low lunge at your stomach for instance, your overhand attack at the head would not have been able to parry the foe.

[GrumpyOldFart]

Sure you lose some momentum on the blade, but the majority of the momentum is from your run, which isn't affected, not the blade itself.

And no, the same move doesn't work for a low-line attack. For low-line, you parry low instead of high, and run down the blade for a backhand slash to the gut or thigh(s) instead of a forehand slash to the head or upper torso.

All attacks are dependent on circumstances to some degree, but one or another variation on "parry the one shot as you close, strike as you pass, be past and out of range before he can respond" is actually fairly common. Any form of what SCAers call "bulldozing" or "an attack pass" is more likely than not to involve parrying a shot as you close. Basically the difference between a "pass" and a "bulldoze" is whether (bulldozing) you are trying to press so close you deny your opponent leverage (he can hit you, but he can't put enough power behind the blow for the hit to matter) or (pass) being back out of range before he can turn and strike.

[jurasketu]

Also remember that "parry" encompasses weapon, armor, movement and threat. Direct weapon-to-weapon block, footwork to minimize the effectiveness of an attack, using shield/armor to deflect a blow and using threats (stopthrust, feint, threatened counterstrike). Even a two second round has the possibility of several strikes/parries/feints/riposte/counters. Parry is more about attention to defensive measures - holding back a little instead of just going all out. Personally, that is why I wrote and use SPAR. It allows a more natural allocation of parry/attack based on circumstances. It flows with the combat instead of being forced.

But the combat actions HAVE penalties. Power strike reduces OB (and hence attack/parry combination). Charge is a direct penalty to defense.

[Pat]

Also remember that "parry" encompasses weapon, armor, movement and threat. Direct weapon-to-weapon block, footwork to minimize the effectiveness of an attack, using shield/armor to deflect a blow and using threats (stopthrust, feint, threatened counterstrike).

I'm assuming that you mean parry in HARP. Actually parry is only weapon blocking. Armour, movement, shield, threat etc has no bearing in HARP as parry is simply transfering OB to DB. Since OB is weapon offensive bonus, a parry (in HARP) can only be attempting to block a foe with your weapon.