Topic: Combat skills as "max OB"

[markc]

The official ruling for RMSS/FRP is you add the bonus item to the skill and compare values.
MDC

Ah well... Thanks for the answer, even if it's not the one I was hoping for. 

 But you can also have combat saddles, combat trained horses and maybe a bonus do to stirrups for Mounted Combat skill. So IMHO it is not all bad. And even the GM might give you a bonus for superior gear.
MDC

[Dougansf]

But you can also have combat saddles, combat trained horses and maybe a bonus do to stirrups for Mounted Combat skill. So IMHO it is not all bad. And even the GM might give you a bonus for superior gear.
MDC

Quite true, and we do find/beg/borrow/steal/craft such things.  Sadly, my Air Champion is mostly interested in Airborne Combat bonuses, which are few and far between.

It just makes no sense to me why a great and powerful magic weapon is reduced in effectiveness because of the wielder holding a second weapon, or on a horse, etc.  It seems like a horrible limitation to put on the most Dev costly (and restrictive) combat styles.

I can completely understand the reduction of weapon skill to combat style skill.  But, IMO, the weapon should add to the final result, as an outside modifier.

[yammahoper]

My advice, don't use it.

Just use the nornal OB's and assign penalties/bonuses based on quality of horse.  If you seek some limitations, base it on riding skill.

Skill ranks in riding      Bonus to OB
        0 -5                       -20
        6 - 10                    -10
       11- 15                     +10
       16 - 20                    +20
       21 - 30                    +30
         31+                        +1 per rank (requires Horse empath talent, otherwise bonus limited to +30)

Even simpler is +1 OB mod per rank in riding, though that may be to simple.

Another simple approach is to say mounted combat skill total IS your OB from combat.  If you use this option, you might want to have mounted combat and mounted archery as two seperate skills, or not.

I use the mounted combat skill, and that number IS your OB from horse back.  It is simple and intuitive.  I use it for all attacks, melee and missile.

[Dougansf]

My advice, don't use it.

Just use the nornal OB's and assign penalties/bonuses based on quality of horse.  If you seek some limitations, base it on riding skill.

Sadly, I am but a PC.  I've had the conversation with the GM, and he's shot it down.

I actually have no issue with how the skills work together.  They seem fine and internally consistent.  Ranks of weapon, ride, and mounted combat, or handedness of weapon and 2WC. 
It's expensive, but you get broader options, and more damage, in return for the investment.

I object to a +OB item being reduced by your skill.  Thus narrowing your options, item choices, etc.
In my mind OB = weapon skill (no greater than currently used combat style). 
Thus +OB comes after the limiting combat style.

[providence13]

I object to a +OB item being reduced by your skill.  Thus narrowing your options, item choices, etc.
In my mind OB = weapon skill (no greater than currently used combat style). 
Thus +OB comes after the limiting combat style.

Wait a minute. What?
If I understand you, the GM isn't allowing a magic bonus to apply to your weapon?
   
For my game: 
  OK, you are standing on the ground and you have X skill in spear/sword/bow, attacking with a normal weapon; not quality or magic. You roll and add your skill bonus.

  Next, you pick up a quality/magic item... +10. Let's say your skill is still the same, X, but when you now attack, you roll, add your skill bonus and add the magic bonus.

  The only difference in being on a horse is that your weapon skill X, is limited by your riding skill Y. So you roll, add your skill bonus Y and then add magic bonus.

How are you losing your "superior gear" bonus?

[markc]

providence13,
 The magic bonus is added into the skill before everything else (ie modifiers, etc). That # is compared to the riding skill, you do not add the magic bonus after comparing your OB to your riding skill.
MDC

[RandalThor]

providence13,
 The magic bonus is added into the skill before everything else (ie modifiers, etc). That # is compared to the riding skill, you do not add the magic bonus after comparing your OB to your riding skill.
MDC

And he wants it to be applied after splitting OB for DB. So, if you have a +30 magical broadsword, with a skill of +70 not including the +30, and you go for a +0 OB putting your +70 to DB, you would still get an attack at +30, the weapon's magical bonus. I see the appeal to that, and I am pretty-sure that the reason the game doesn't do it that way is for the sake of ease. But, I think it is still better to just add it and then do all the calculating. Mostly for ease. It just doesn't matter that much to me, I guess.

[providence13]

I did say,
"For my game..." 

Gotcha. I see what you mean. The magic directly affects the Offensive Bonus but the "attack roll" is a second step in the process.
Using the skills Riding, TWC, Acrobatics/Flying can then limit OB, (Directed Spell), etc.. YGMV.

I don't think we've always played that way..  Especially with regards to TWC and items with different bonuses

[jaranka]

This is one of my most confusing and disagreeable aspects of RM.  I personally think (and often think was the intent of the creators) that your modifiable OB (for OB/DB split, or restricted by lower skill) is your skill bonus, and does not include quality/magic, position, phase, etc bonuses.  Lumping all these factors into one "OB" is terribly limiting, and can not reflect changes in the combat environment during the round because you have to declare your split at the beginning.  It also creates too many problematic and nonsensical scenarios.

And he wants it to be applied after splitting OB for DB. So, if you have a +30 magical broadsword, with a skill of +70 not including the +30, and you go for a +0 OB putting your +70 to DB, you would still get an attack at +30, the weapon's magical bonus. I see the appeal to that, and I am pretty-sure that the reason the game doesn't do it that way is for the sake of ease. But, I think it is still better to just add it and then do all the calculating. Mostly for ease. It just doesn't matter that much to me, I guess.

If I've got a +30 sword of slaying, and my opponent has a rusty shortsword, but we have equal riding skills, it boggles the mind that we would attack with the same modifier.  It's painful enough that the Swordmaster (100 weapon skill) and the knave (30 weapon skill) would have the same capability on horseback if they each had a 30 riding skill.

I just think so many problems are solved when you separate your modifiers from your weapon skill.  Its simpler, clearer, more realistic, and is more able to account for changes in modifiers during the round.  It separates offensive modifiers from defensive modifiers, and doesn't clump everything in to one immutable and unrealistic number.

[markc]

 I do not know the section in the archives this was discussed in but the main idea was:
 1) +30 is material bonus and is only partial edge bonus vs the armor material, so it is not just a simple material edge vs material armor argument.
 2) The material and magic bonus aids you in finding a better way to damage you opponent by being more maneuverable, forcing the other into a bad position or their weapon/shield into that position.
 3) By just adding bonuses after the fact can cause some strange cases to arise. I am tied up a bit now but I will try and remember just what the big problem was.


MDC