Topic: Interrogation/torture

[DangerMan]

We've recently had som issues with interrogation, or torture, more precisely. The PCs are "going medieval" on the NPC, for good reasons, though.

A static maneuver, with some modifier based on targets stake in what information is sought, is a given. But I also belive target should be allowed an RR (e.g. SD/SD/RE). Acting skills could come in handy as well, if the target wants to come up with a lie.

How do you guys handle interrogation/torture?

[Ecthelion]

We simply use the Interrogation skill as stated in SoHK (which is quite similar to what is listed in the core book) and add, if used, up to +25 when torturing the opponent. The latter of course bears the risk that the victim dies...

[DangerMan]

We simply use the Interrogation skill as stated in SoHK (which is quite similar to what is listed in the core book) and add, if used, up to +25 when torturing the opponent. The latter of course bears the risk that the victim dies...

Thats one way to do it. But my problem with this is that the modifiers in SOHK doesnt take into consideration the targets CO, SD, St, level etc. This way torturing Conan and Woody Allen would yield the same result, given that their intellect and interest/stakes in the information were the same (okay bad example, but still).

[Kristen Mork]

I, too, usually just use the modifiers from SoHK.  However, in a recent game, one of the characters was captured, while the remaining characters had an evil cowri (giant) prisoner.  There was a race to determine who would crack first.  In this case, we used opposed Self Control vs. Interrogation maneuvers.  Thus, the interrogators had the advantage because they were using a skill bonus, while the prisoner could rely only on a skill category bonus.

Each "round" the interrogators would make an Interrogation maneuver and subtract the result of the defender's Self Control maneuver.  If the result was positive, the interrogators gained that many "points" (i.e., the interrogators can never lose points).  Once the interrogators had 200 points, the opponent cracked.

Fortunately for the PCs, the character that was captured was a warrior-priest with a huge Self Control bonus to fuel his love of Adrenal maneuvers.  The PCs also made clever use of Culture Lore to determine how best to frighten the cowri, which provided a "subsequent maneuver" bonus ranging from +5 to +20.

As an aside, when interrogators use torture, I treat any bonus they receive as a penalty to Lie Perception.  You can get the victim to speak, but he might just be telling you what you want to hear.

[DangerMan]

I, too, usually just use the modifiers from SoHK.  However, in a recent game, one of the characters was captured, while the remaining characters had an evil cowri (giant) prisoner.  There was a race to determine who would crack first.  In this case, we used opposed Self Control vs. Interrogation maneuvers.  Thus, the interrogators had the advantage because they were using a skill bonus, while the prisoner could rely only on a skill category bonus.

Each "round" the interrogators would make an Interrogation maneuver and subtract the result of the defender's Self Control maneuver.  If the result was positive, the interrogators gained that many "points" (i.e., the interrogators can never lose points).  Once the interrogators had 200 points, the opponent cracked.

Fortunately for the PCs, the character that was captured was a warrior-priest with a huge Self Control bonus to fuel his love of Adrenal maneuvers.  The PCs also made clever use of Culture Lore to determine how best to frighten the cowri, which provided a "subsequent maneuver" bonus ranging from +5 to +20.

As an aside, when interrogators use torture, I treat any bonus they receive as a penalty to Lie Perception.  You can get the victim to speak, but he might just be telling you what you want to hear.

Thanks! Something like this was what I was looking for. Good thinking.

I think, however, that the target should be allowed some slim chanse of just keeping his mouth shut. From what you described I guess target woulf either crack, or eventually die?

So I would rule that if self control manuver > interrogation maneuver, the target gets X points as well. If target accumulates X points, the interregator will learn nothing. You'd still need a whole lot of ranks in the self control category, or a lucky dice, to withstand a skilled interrogater. Taking torture should be tough, but not impossible.

I very much like the idea of giving a penalty to lie perception based on the "causing discomfort bonus". It's hard to tell if someone is lying, if you have just forced him to eat his own eye

[craggles]

It's hard to tell if someone is lying, if you have just forced him to eat his own eye 

Wow - now that's hardcore torture!
(everyone's looking at me strangely as I gave a very loud belly laugh out of nowhere)

[RandalThor]

I think, however, that the target should be allowed some slim chanse of just keeping his mouth shut. From what you described I guess target woulf either crack, or eventually die?

Which is very much realistic: everyone has their breaking point. It is either they crack and start talking (though, like was said, could just be what the interrogators are wanting to hear and not the truth), or they die.

[Marc R]

may want to include false positives/negatives.. . . .few people won't admit something, anything, to avoid having another toe cut off.

[rdanhenry]

Which is very much realistic: everyone has their breaking point. It is either they crack and start talking (though, like was said, could just be what the interrogators are wanting to hear and not the truth), or they die.

Eventually. Maybe. There are individuals who have held out for years without cooperating with their captors. For a human being, the options are certain. However, an Elf could theoretically hold out indefinitely without dying.

How many PC groups are willing to take the weeks it can take to get results from someone mildly stubborn? You can also render someone useless in several ways without killing them: do any of several kinds of damage that prevent speech, cause physical brain damage that loses the information or prevents communicating it, or inflict psychological trauma that prevents meaningful access of the desired information. And the longer you interrogate someone under torture before they talk, the more information even from someone who is not consciously plotting dishonesty is polluted by implications of what you want to hear that they then parrot back to you.

Torture is an excellent method of getting someone to tell you what you want to hear. It is much less useful as a means to learning the truth. There are first level spells that are vastly more useful for that purpose. Torture should be saved for wringing confessions out of those who would otherwise stubbornly maintain their innocence (especially if this is due to the technicality of not having committed the crimes in question).

[providence13]

Torture is an excellent method of getting someone to tell you what you want to hear. It is much less useful as a means to learning the truth. There are first level spells that are vastly more useful for that purpose.

This is a good point to keep in mind. Both parties involved, could also use Trickery, Seduction, Duping, etc. If you don't torture right away, there's always Stockholm's Syndrome (~30%). After a few failed rolls, the person  may no longer receive that SD bonus.

Instead of the probably effective, but gruesome tactics mentioned, there are others ways to torture. Anyone ever had a bad tuna fish sandwich? ..whew!
The torturer that doesn't leave a mark is skilled indeed.

[RandalThor]

Being held captive is different than being tortured; one is much more active than the other. And, yes, someone can last years if they are being tortured for a few hours, then "put away" for a few weeks, tortured, put away, etc.. Being tortured for weeks on end with no "rest" means break or die. Sleep deprivation, sound torture (something I am particularly susceptible to), light torture, and actual pain inducing are all used in conjunction by a "good" torturer to get results. Though, as was mentioned, isn't necessarily going to work like they plan/hope.

This is one of the (many) times I feel that the PCs shouldn't roll the dice themselves, the GM should do it. Sometimes you just don't know if they are telling you the truth or not, or if what you are doing is working or not.

[craggles]

This is one of the (many) times I feel that the PCs shouldn't roll the dice themselves, the GM should do it. Sometimes you just don't know if they are telling you the truth or not, or if what you are doing is working or not.

Good point.

I normally roll in those situations but if they really want to roll themselves, I get them to roll behind my screen so they don't see the result but are satisfied that they got to roll it.

Lie Perception, Stalking/Hiding are a couple of others that I keep behind myself.

[rdanhenry]

Well, if you push for speed with aggressive physical techniques, you can assure "break or die", but this is only because you are assuring "die". Bashing his skull in with a mace achieves "break or die", too.

[RandalThor]

Well, if you push for speed with aggressive physical techniques, you can assure "break or die", but this is only because you are assuring "die".

Yes, aggressive techniques are most likely going to end up in the "die" category, and the slow techniques are most likely going to end up in the "break" category. But it will always be one or the other (or escape too, I guess...which can be some very fun adventures).

Bashing his skull in with a mace achieves "break or die", too.

No, barring any unusual-ness, this is almost always going to achieve the "break AND die" result. (With the break being their skull, of course.  )