Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Rolemaster => RMC/RM2 => Topic started by: Benax on October 05, 2017, 05:35:59 AM
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Hi!
We dusted of the rulebooks and gave Rolemaster a try a couple of weeks ago. I have some (probably basic) rules questions I would be grateful if anyone can answer.
1) When preparing a spell, can a spell user use any part of his OB to parry that same round? Can he use a shield if he has one?
2) If my hasted character wants to attack the same foe twice in one round, will my opponent have to split his OB 3 ways (1 to attack and 1 for each parry) or will it be enough with 2?
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Spell prep requires 90% of your activity so 10% of your OB would be available for partying and yes you can use a shield.
In RMC parrying applies to one foe, not the individual attacks so divide it 2 ways not three.
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..... 10% of your OB would be available for partying .....
Sweeeeeeet!!!! :bday1: :party:
Hey. Some party is better than no party.
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Thanx for your help!
Will definately party 10%! ;D
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..... 10% of your OB would be available for partying .....
Sweeeeeeet!!!! :bday1: :party:
Hey. Some party is better than no party.
Damn that predictive text, or whatever it is called these days.
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..... 10% of your OB would be available for partying .....
Sweeeeeeet!!!! :bday1: :party:
Hey. Some party is better than no party.
Damn that predictive text, or whatever it is called these days.
It's called "Freudian slip" ;-)
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In our games we don't allow multiple castings while hasted. ie you can still only cast one spell per round. In our worlds magic has a finite rate at which it can be processed, the caster even if hasted can not improve this rate. However there is more time for other effects, so if the spell task required 90% of a round with haste 45% is required but the portion of the round released can not be used to create another spell effect.
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In our games we don't allow multiple castings while hasted. ie you can still only cast one spell per round. In our worlds magic has a finite rate at which it can be processed, the caster even if hasted can not improve this rate. However there is more time for other effects, so if the spell task required 90% of a round with haste 45% is required but the portion of the round released can not be used to create another spell effect.
That is our view. It is like boiling an egg. If you haste the chef it will still take 3 minutes to boil the egg and that will never change.
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That is our view. It is like boiling an egg. If you haste the chef it will still take 3 minutes to boil the egg and that will never change.
Excellent analogy. That's exactly what I was trying to phrase. The caster is hasted, but he must focus his attentions to the spell being formed and that takes x-amount of time for the spell to coalesce. The caster running about, doing more things within one round doesn't change the time needed for the spell to form from the aether, so it will still take x-amount of time for the spell regardless of how many other things the caster wants to try to do.
The caster can always try to hip shoot the spell if he'd like. Plenty of our players did that, and sometimes it worked well. ;-)
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That is our view. It is like boiling an egg. If you haste the chef it will still take 3 minutes to boil the egg and that will never change.
The chef doesn't boil the egg using his mind. For what you know, magic being imposing one's will over the rules of the universe (as in reality-warping), increasing one's thought and imaging process also increases how fast a spell could be cast. Moreover, regardless of how experienced a chef is, or how talented he is, boiling an egg takes three minutes. This does not apply to spellcasting, as not only does spellcasting time for the same spell decreases as one's level goes up (class IV spells becoming class III, then II, etc.), some people (at least through a background option) can cast the same spell whilst being the same level as other people but faster ("one round faster") meaning that it is possible for whatsoever reason to increase the speed "at which (magic) can be processed."
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That is our view. It is like boiling an egg. If you haste the chef it will still take 3 minutes to boil the egg and that will never change.
The chef doesn't boil the egg using his mind. For what you know, magic being imposing one's will over the rules of the universe (as in reality-warping), increasing one's thought and imaging process also increases how fast a spell could be cast. Moreover, regardless of how experienced a chef is, or how talented he is, boiling an egg takes three minutes. This does not apply to spellcasting, as not only does spellcasting time for the same spell decreases as one's level goes up (class IV spells becoming class III, then II, etc.), some people (at least through a background option) can cast the same spell whilst being the same level as other people but faster ("one round faster") meaning that it is possible for whatsoever reason to increase the speed "at which (magic) can be processed."
I cannot remember which book it was in but the three rounds of basic spell prep and casting were described pretty much as this.
Rnd 1 recalling the actual spell to the casters mind.
Rnd 2 summoning up the essence needed for casting the spell
Rnd 3 the actual physical process of casting the spell including the verbalisation and had gestures.
Rnd 1 As casters increase in level then the process of recalling simpler (lower level) spells becomes more automatic so this can eventually be skipped.
Rnd 2 As casters increase in level then summoning relatively smaller amounts of essence can become easier so this can become faster.
Rnd 3 This never changes so cannot be made faster.
It is that round 3 that is the boiled egg and why the rule say that a hasted caster only gets to double the remaining portion of the round.
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I cannot remember which book it was in but the three rounds of basic spell prep and casting were described pretty much as this.
I don't think it's from any RAW.
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I cannot remember which book it was in but the three rounds of basic spell prep and casting were described pretty much as this.
I don't think it's from any RAW.
No, but apparently if you try to haste boiling an egg, it is raw. :)
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As a matter of fact, the Wizard (from RoCo. V) has Spellhaste spells, allowing him to cast two Class I spells in a single round. So much for the incompressibility of "time (required) for the spell to coalesce."
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As a matter of fact, the Wizard (from RoCo. V) has Spellhaste spells, allowing him to cast two Class I spells in a single round. So much for the incompressibility of "time (required) for the spell to coalesce."
I would argue that is a Magic Spell enhancing magic directly and not someone just moving really fast to do two things in a single round.
If the Wizard casts a spell that directly impacts the casting and formation of spells, magic, and the manipulation of aether, then yes, it would be like opening a bigger hole in a tank of water and getting that water flow much faster. But hasting a person's physical speed in the physical world doesn't increase his ability to pull magic from the aether more rapidly or allow him to pull water from a small opening twice as fast because he moves his hands twice as fast... the water flow is the same rate.
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That is our view. It is like boiling an egg. If you haste the chef it will still take 3 minutes to boil the egg and that will never change.
The chef doesn't boil the egg using his mind. For what you know, magic being imposing one's will over the rules of the universe (as in reality-warping), increasing one's thought and imaging process also increases how fast a spell could be cast. Moreover, regardless of how experienced a chef is, or how talented he is, boiling an egg takes three minutes. This does not apply to spellcasting, as not only does spellcasting time for the same spell decreases as one's level goes up (class IV spells becoming class III, then II, etc.), some people (at least through a background option) can cast the same spell whilst being the same level as other people but faster ("one round faster") meaning that it is possible for whatsoever reason to increase the speed "at which (magic) can be processed."
I cannot remember which book it was in but the three rounds of basic spell prep and casting were described pretty much as this.
Rnd 1 recalling the actual spell to the casters mind.
Rnd 2 summoning up the essence needed for casting the spell
Rnd 3 the actual physical process of casting the spell including the verbalisation and had gestures.
Rnd 1 As casters increase in level then the process of recalling simpler (lower level) spells becomes more automatic so this can eventually be skipped.
Rnd 2 As casters increase in level then summoning relatively smaller amounts of essence can become easier so this can become faster.
Rnd 3 This never changes so cannot be made faster.
It is that round 3 that is the boiled egg and why the rule say that a hasted caster only gets to double the remaining portion of the round.
I love this spelling out of the three phases of the spell. I used it with my wife who is very new to Rolemaster and I saw the light come on. She said, "Oh, that makes total sense!"
-BP
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Glad to be of service, I just cannot remember where I got that from.
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I would argue that is a Magic Spell enhancing magic directly and not someone just moving really fast to do two things in a single round.
If the Wizard casts a spell that directly impacts the casting and formation of spells, magic, and the manipulation of aether, then yes, it would be like opening a bigger hole in a tank of water and getting that water flow much faster. But hasting a person's physical speed in the physical world doesn't increase his ability to pull magic from the aether more rapidly or allow him to pull water from a small opening twice as fast because he moves his hands twice as fast... the water flow is the same rate.
Haste is haste. Considering the Wizard appears in RoCo V and considering reaction speed (implying thinking speed) isn't just "physical speed" (not in the way you apparently consider it), I think it means someone thought, after quite a long time, a distinction should be "officially" made, meaning the answer wasn't so obvious. As for the "physical world", everything is physical, including thought processes that are nothing more micro-electrical signals in the brain, or in this case "magic (pulling) from the aether" that manifests in the physical world anyway. Haste is haste. Nothing in the RAW but balance says that haste only provides "physical" haste, as it's describe in meta-game mechanics, giving a character 200% activity. In fact, even the spell (RM2 edition at least) clearly says that rules about the matter (section 7.4 in my SL copy) are "suggestions for handling this", and a note clearly says that "if a GM is prohibited the casting of two spells in one round, as it is suggested" ...
Now, obviously, a GM may change rules as he fits, but, here, even the rules remind you they are merely suggestions about how to handle haste when applying to spells, and not hard rules.
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Now, obviously, a GM may change rules as he fits, but, here, even the rules remind you they are merely suggestions about how to handle haste when applying to spells, and not hard rules.
Very good point: "...suggestions... not hard rules."
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Let's notice that it was changed into a RAW in RMSS, becoming "only one spell may be cast per round, no matter whether Hasted or not", whereas in RM2 a note says "if the GM is prohibiting the casting of two spells in one round, as is suggested, …"
Similarly, whereas in RM2, the spell's description had "suggested rules for handling this are in section 7.4…", in RMSS it became "see 7.1.24 for more information."
I don't know how it was in RMC so it may be interesting that someone owning its SL checks.
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Let's notice that it was changed into a RAW in RMSS, becoming "only one spell may be cast per round, no matter whether Hasted or not", whereas in RM2 a note says "if the GM is prohibiting the casting of two spells in one round, as is suggested, …"
Similarly, whereas in RM2, the spell's description had "suggested rules for handling this are in section 7.4…", in RMSS it became "see 7.1.24 for more information."
I don't know how it was in RMC so it may be interesting that someone owning its SL checks.
RMC use the same wording as RMSS.
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RMSS does allow you to prepare one spell while casting another, or to prepare two spells at once, if you have enough activity (e.g. haste). You just can't cast two in the same round. (RMSR pg 76)
I don't see any equivalent to the Spellhaste spell in RMSS though. There are the Complex spells (Wizard) which combine the results but you have to spend the full time to cast two separate spells. Closest thing I see for simultaneous casting is Complex Rune for activating two bladerunes at once, not really the same thing.
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Let's notice that RM2 has a note about how a "GM prohibiting the casting of two spells in one round may also wish to prohibit the preparation of a second spell in the same round another is cast", probably to avoid the unequivalence of casting a Class I together with a Class III spells.
What I mean is: whilst being hasted,
* round I: cast a Class I spell and prepare a Class III spell → allowed and there are 35% activity left,
* round II: complete preparation of Class III spell and cast it → allowed and there are 35% activity left.
Now, try to do the reverse:
* round I: prepare a Class III spell → allowed and there are 20% activity left,
* round II: cast the Class III spell and cast a Class I spell → not allowed, even there's 125% activity left after the casting of the spell.
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"Whilst being hasted" throws a lot of monkey-wrenches into the timing of spell-prep and casts. I may look into this for the upcoming campaign. The spell-casting-baddies will be outnumbered and will need a little gameplay edge to help their longevity.
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While this doesn't address Haste, one could allow alchemists, with the "General" spells to create items that allow less prep time for spells. At one extreme would be letting a General I spell take off one round of prep - that's pretty cheap, and even a General II would be inexpensive, in relative terms. At the other extreme, one could say that since the ESF for casting 1 round short is 25, you need a General V spell to fully counter that - but you still have to make an ESF roll, and if you fail, the modifier on the fumble roll is still 3*25.
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While this doesn't address Haste, one could allow alchemists, with the "General" spells to create items that allow less prep time for spells.
Haste does that, as a Class II spell can be prepared and cast in the same round, and a Class III can have both its preparation rounds done in the same round to be cast the next round (and with 125% left to boot).
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While this doesn't address Haste, one could allow alchemists, with the "General" spells to create items that allow less prep time for spells.
Haste does that, as a Class II spell can be prepared and cast in the same round, and a Class III can have both its preparation rounds done in the same round to be cast the next round (and with 125% left to boot).
Sorry, maybe my wording wasn't clear. I was not considering questions of Haste and spell casting. I was merely looking at ways one could reduce preparation time. Allowing alchemists to make "accelerators" would be such an option.