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Systems & Settings => Rolemaster => RMSS/FRP => Topic started by: Dreven1 on April 08, 2013, 10:14:11 AM
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Anyone have an opinion on how much mithril is needed to weave into a set of Leather to make it +20 magical to DB? I have a group with 20 mithril coins and they want to use them to make stuff "magical" by finding an alchemist with the "work mithril" spell to interweave the coins into thread and sew them into leather to provide a +20 DB. According to the Alchemist Companion Mithril provides a bonus of +20. The question is ... now MUCH mithril is that? ;D Thanks all!
Thoughts?
Drev
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Just my opinion..
Quick answer, the Mithril Bonus is only for metal armors. AT's 13-20 and shields, helms, gauntlets can benefit from the bonus. Since each coin is a "one-of-a-kind work of art" (2.2.2 Metals, pg 13), it took a 15th lvl Work Mithril for each coin. IMHO, it requires the same to re-work each coin into a suit of "metal" armor to get the bonus. If you wanted to re-work 2 mithril war mattock heads into a heavy hand axe and spear, I'd allow it. That is one 15th lvl Work Mithril spell, each (for starters).
In other words, I think it's far too cost prohibitive to make a mithril reinforced suit of leather. As to how many coins? In my mind, they are about dime, nickel sized coins (US currency). I don't know.. at least 200.? YGMV. :)
I'm not sure that studded leather (if that's what you have in mind) was an effective armor. Maybe you are going for lamellar, scale (coins) over leather/sandwiched between leather. It might takes considerable more coins, if that's the case. :)
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Good ideas (+1 idea points!) thanks for the input.
The PC's were just wanting to reinforce their leather with mithril thread (basically build the mithril bonus into the leather).
However, since this is only for metal armor I might have to reconsider.
So, this brings up another question. I had another player want to weave mithril into a staff to get the same bonus. In your opinion, does the entire staff need to be made of mithril?
Thanks again!!
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Like my above answer, this is just how I would handle it;
If you wanted the mithril bonus on a staff, it would only have to be metal shod on both ends. This is the same as having a magical metal spear, for instance with a quality wooden handle. You could still break the wooden handle.
3.4.5 Wood, pg 27 Treasure Co.
"Quarterstaves and clubs may have their material strength increased by either banding them with steel (which adds half of the material strength bonus to the club or staff), or may be made out of a type of wood that is tough enough to have a material bonus."
I assume you mean they want to make a staff for combat. If they have a current existing magical staff (that has charges, spells, gives abilities) and they want to reinforce it with mithril, I'd make them re-work the whole thing. ;) The magic aura of the item is in balance, it works. Adding to that by trying to cast Work Mithril (and other spells) could seriously put that balance out of whack. IMHO.
I would allow a high quality wooden staff be shod/banded in mithril. I would then give the mithril bonus for that weapon and half the mithril material (TreasCo pg 27) bonus for breakage. Mithril normally gives +30 Material bonus, so I'd give the staff +15 material bonus vs breakage. Sounds just like a wooden handle on a mithril spear head.
If their source of mithril is metal coins, I stand by what I posted above. A lot of Work Mithril spells and a lot of coins even. Have fun. They sound like ingenious players.
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What happens if you put strips of steel on a tinfoil hat? It is nog going to increase the protective qualities that much. You need a certain construction for the steel to be protective. On the BEST (most generous) estimate, if there is some protective value to a certain item, adding a certain amount of improved material, in the correct way, will add its bonus, only on a weighed basis. So if there is 50% +0 material and 50% +10 material, it will be averaged to +5...
As for the mithril staff: there is a little funny bit about that. Just a wooden quarterstaff is actually -20, but it is made in to a weapon by adding bindings to both ends, made of iron. This makes the staff +0 to use. Using mithril isn't going to improve it that much, but you might rule that binding the ends with mithril will make it +5...
Coins, btw, are standard 1/2 ounce coins, or 32 to a pound. Silver pennies (d.) once were 240 to an avoirdupois pound (330 grams), so these were substantially lighter. Medieval coins were substantially lighter and thinner than contemporary coins.
Anyway: how to make +20 stuff from Mithril:
Weight of a steel mail byrnie: 25 pounds. Mithril is about half as light: so you need 12 pounds of Mithril. You could say to use the Work Mithril spell, but you can probably forge Mithril if you have the right forge and sufficient skill...
I think Mithril should be insanely expensive. I once had a player make part Mithril/ part Titanium armor. He had been hoarding Mithril his entire career and proceeded to make a his Mithril/ Titanium full plate at around lvl 17, which would be the ideal level range for having +15 - +20 items. We calculated at the time he could also buy a fairly nice keep for the money the Mithril plate cost.
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Vlad, I might have the quoted info all wrong. I'm going from a RMSS/FRP standpoint quoting material from Treasure Companion with pg #'s. Sometimes I wax loquacious on house rules. Never want to lead others astray. Never want to say what works for me will work for everyone. Thanks for the input.
Respectfully, there is an asterisk on pg 38 of TreasCo which disagrees with the "Just a wooden quarterstaff is actually -20", rule.
"right forge and sufficient skill": Both of these are necessary in my games as well. I still remain fastidious in the requirement of magic to work mithril. Assumptions 1.1 pg 5. Working Magical metals requires Enchant spells be cast (Work Mithril) pg 7. Mithril (pg 13) can only be processed by magic. So, I totally agree.
Yeah, mithril does sound like it's raining money up in here. That would have been a sweet keep, for sure.
Good info on coins!
I'm glad you found the "ideal level range" for magic items and player level in your groups. Boy, I'm always having a time with this one.
I'm not yet good enough to have the player characters wear tin hats made of beaten foil. I will try, as my personal challenge to incorporate this into the game. Once they realize the benefits of such headgear, I've no doubt that my industrious team will attempt to increase their protection with steel reinforcements. Hope they're not reading this.. :)
Titanium alloy armor would be nice. I had a player hand me the specs of exactly how he would make a "titanium vapor deposit .. something, something forge" from 1800's tech. He always said sufficient vacuum and heat were the only obstacles. Maybe that's white alloy.. I'm not a metallurgist.
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Vlad, I might have the quoted info all wrong. I'm going from a RMSS/FRP standpoint quoting material from Treasure Companion with pg #'s. Sometimes I wax loquacious on house rules. Never want to lead others astray. Never want to say what works for me will work for everyone. Thanks for the input.
I have the same problem... let me state the disclaimer here then: what I say is usually MY, very strict, interpretation of the rules. I have faced PCs, in multiple groups, that wanted to glue mithril coins to everything, in hopes they would turn something magical. I realized it would be unbalancing so I bent my interpretation of the rules to fit a more balanced approach.
Respectfully, there is an asterisk on pg 38 of TreasCo which disagrees with the "Just a wooden quarterstaff is actually -20", rule.
Ah yes... another house rule/ interpretation... due to these rules: a simple steel club (some call that a mace) would be +20... I'm not for this... it does make a Mithril quarterstaff quite a bit better (+40?). Another tip I learned with faling: don't allow Mithril items to be melted down for cash... the multiplier and the base material cost per ounce are WAY off...
"right forge and sufficient skill": Both of these are necessary in my games as well. I still remain fastidious in the requirement of magic to work mithril. Assumptions 1.1 pg 5. Working Magical metals requires Enchant spells be cast (Work Mithril) pg 7. Mithril (pg 13) can only be processed by magic. So, I totally agree.
You make magic items to be special, and since Mithril is magical, it is special. I can see why, but I want a system where Mithril is just another material coming out of the ground. It is actually soft and can be alloyed to make the other magical alloys (Ithilnaur, Anornaur, Eog, Kregora) Weapon grade Mithril alloy (called Mithrilang) is +20. Dwarves and Elves get to forge it without the need for magics.
Yeah, mithril does sound like it's raining money up in here. That would have been a sweet keep, for sure.
Good info on coins!
Yeah thanks. My players keep me on my toes in that respect, so I need to stay one step ahead. But I am going with the RM2 convention: 1/2 ounce coins.
I'm glad you found the "ideal level range" for magic items and player level in your groups. Boy, I'm always having a time with this one.
It is not that hard to figure: I just use +1 per level as reasonable, but with a general +/-5. Fighters get their weapons slightly early (say +10 gear at lvl 5) and second rank fighters get it around their level. As for multipliers: I use +% items in the same way: so pures and hybrids get +10% at lvl 5, semis get +10% at lvl 10. Adders go +1 per 4-5 lvls. Otherwise it is roughly the treasure companion levels that I stick with.
I'm not yet good enough to have the player characters wear tin hats made of beaten foil. I will try, as my personal challenge to incorporate this into the game. Once they realize the benefits of such headgear, I've no doubt that my industrious team will attempt to increase their protection with steel reinforcements. Hope they're not reading this.. :)
It is fairly easy: just have an important NPC tell the PCs that tinfoil hats work as full helmets against Mentalism spells, without the negatives on Essence and Channeling casting... provide tin foil as needed the next day :D
Titanium alloy armor would be nice. I had a player hand me the specs of exactly how he would make a "titanium vapor deposit .. something, something forge" from 1800's tech. He always said sufficient vacuum and heat were the only obstacles. Maybe that's white alloy.. I'm not a metallurgist.
Yeah, White alloy would be the Titanium alloy one. I don't like it when players go beyond the rules and start figuring things their characters couldn't. I've had characters wanting to make gun powder, laser weapons, etc... With RM you just point out their gimmicry skill value, but how to stop a an armor smith in D&D with +70 skill from making tanks? (Mumakil + full plate + pillbox on top...)
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;D It does make things magical when you stick Mithril coins to them, just not the type of magical that the players wished for. (ie it looks good and some would say magical) ;D
Note: Below is my game world stuff and it is not universal to all of my game worlds.
I do require magic to work Mithril and to smelt it down in to smaller bits. You cannot just go to your average smith and say "Hay dude I will buy you a beer if you break this into smaller bits for me" (I also tend to list the level of the smith and his list level for breaking down items. That is to say I have had more durable (harder to melt down) items that required higher level smiths and even the elemental forge idea from the RM2 Essence Companion.)
Also the problem with Mithril is who has the money to buy the stuff? Most likely you will use it for trade or when you do have it do you have a good enough smith to forge it into what you would like?
;D "Ok so for your 5 mithril coins I can give you the docks, warehouse, 7 small homes, the stables and the inn."..." But again what am I going to do with them out here? And how am I going to pay the tax's when the Kings Men come a calling? No I think I will just keep my little corner of the world here and you can keep your very nice pretty coins ;D [size=78%] [/size]
[size=78%]MDC[/size]
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Anyone have an opinion on how much mithril is needed to weave into a set of Leather to make it +20 magical to DB? I have a group with 20 mithril coins and they want to use them to make stuff "magical" by finding an alchemist with the "work mithril" spell to interweave the coins into thread and sew them into leather to provide a +20 DB. According to the Alchemist Companion Mithril provides a bonus of +20. The question is ... now MUCH mithril is that? ;D Thanks all!
Thoughts?
Drev
Alchemy Companion (RM2), page 28
"Example: Suppose the GM ruled that the Mithril hammer in the example above requires 1 pound of Mithril (i.e., the rest of the weight is a wood of metal shaft and a steel core). The Alchemist would have to obtain the pound of Mithril. In the suggested Rolemaster monetary system (see section 3.5.1) a Mithril piece (.25 oz) is worth 100 gold pieces, so 1 pound of Mithril would be worth around 6400 gold pieces."
So really, you need to decide the weight ratio imbedded into the leather to make a difference to the DB, then it is 64 coins to the pound. Personally, I would not allow a leather armour type with Mitrhil in it, that is what dragon hide is for!
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Alchemy Companion (RM2), page 28
"Example: Suppose the GM ruled that the Mithril hammer in the example above requires 1 pound of Mithril (i.e., the rest of the weight is a wood of metal shaft and a steel core). The Alchemist would have to obtain the pound of Mithril. In the suggested Rolemaster monetary system (see section 3.5.1) a Mithril piece (.25 oz) is worth 100 gold pieces, so 1 pound of Mithril would be worth around 6400 gold pieces."
Nice! Thank you!!!
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There might be something in the old Arms Companion (not Arms Law), from RM2. It had rules for piecemeal and armor variants.
Coins were used in that fashion, often by punching holes in them and attaching with wire. A full suit would be like scale (chain base) or studded leather. But it would take a lot of coins to do this. Some coins were minted with holes in them.
A side thought, what happens when the armor gets damaged in battle? A good fighter is going to check his armor at his earliest convenience and notice that he's a few mithril poorer.
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Sorry I'm late on this topic...
I have a group with 20 mithril coins ...
And I would LOVE to adventure in this world. Any world rich enough to be able to mint mithril coins must have an over abundance of mithril items as well...
Usually in my worlds, I deem mithril so rare it is like Tolkein's Middle-Earth. As far as I can remember, the Dwarfs mined only enough mithril to create one chain shirt, one ring, and some other weapon item. And that was with about 3500 years of mining under the Dwarrowdelf (?msp). Of course, I have not read Tolkein's works in about a couple of decades. Thus, I may be wrong.
If you have the newest Treasure Companion (RMFRP edition), it has whole sections on how to deal with crafting items made from mithril.
rmfr
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Most likely mithrel would be an advanced alloy of steel, with the mithrel used to make steel of a superior strength and flexibility. Pure mithrel would be far to soft to make anything other than coins and housewares/jewlry with.
The recipes for those alloys would be closely guarded. Having the mithrel is one thing. Access to a skilled smith that can use it beyound smelting and casting is another.
Even if mithrel is abundant, most won't go into making weapons and armor. Why would they when a normal steel sword is perfectlt capable of killing and so very much cheaper? 10,000 swords to arm an army, or one fancy +25 mithrel sword? When that sort of tool is needed, mercenariers and adventures are far cheaper, as is the church and magic, than smithing high end, high tech materials into weapons.
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Why would mithril be soft? I don't feel like that is supported by the rules or by Tolkien.
In the real world, the closest thing I think is meteoric iron. It was extremely expensive and also difficult to work. But it certainly did get used to make weapons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloy#Meteoric_iron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloy#Meteoric_iron) and in more detail http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2844401?uid=3739696&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21101889567273 (http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2844401?uid=3739696&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21101889567273) Expense is kind of a fiction, if you are a powerful noble who possesses or can claim the meteor and have smiths in your service. It was harder to make but didn't require 10,000 times the manpower, even if the nominal sale price (for an item that might never have actually been sold) was 10,000 times as high.
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Why would mithril be soft? I don't feel like that is supported by the rules or by Tolkien.
In the real world, the closest thing I think is meteoric iron. It was extremely expensive and also difficult to work. But it certainly did get used to make weapons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloy#Meteoric_iron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloy#Meteoric_iron) and in more detail http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2844401?uid=3739696&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21101889567273 (http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2844401?uid=3739696&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21101889567273) Expense is kind of a fiction, if you are a powerful noble who possesses or can claim the meteor and have smiths in your service. It was harder to make but didn't require 10,000 times the manpower, even if the nominal sale price (for an item that might never have actually been sold) was 10,000 times as high.
It's a fantasy world, nothing wrong with fantasy.
Meteoric Iron is an alloy. Nickle, Iron and two others...I forget.
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I read somewhere on the boards here that one person thought that mithril was titanium (Ti) even though I think the Big T talks about Ti in some other work.
MDC
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I meant meteoric iron has the same role in real history as mithril in the game: an extremely rare and expensive material that is hard to work, and which produces superior items. So if you want to make an argument about how mithril would be used in the game world, it makes sense to look to how meteoric iron was used in the real world. Meteoric iron was used to make weapons, ergo it is realistic to imagine mithril would be used for the same purpose. You can make any choice you want for your setting of course (maybe it's considered sacred and making weapons from it would be profane), but you can't reasonably argue that using mithril for weapons would be unrealistic.
Whether it has the same metallurgical properties (it is or isn't an alloy, the alloy is or isn't hard) is a separate question. I don't have a personal preference for what metallurgical properties mithril should have. However, Treasure Companion says it gives a +20 item bonus and a +30 strength bonus. That pretty clearly indicates it makes a weapon that is as effective as Black Alloy (+20) and is even more resistant to breakage than Black Alloy (by an additional +10, which is as great a difference as that between hard iron and high carbon steel). Furthermore, it cannot be worked through non-magical means, requiring a 15th level spell to shape. So that says it is less malleable than Black Alloy. Mithril is consistently referred to as a metal and not an alloy. Treasure Companion also defines Black Alloy as a steel alloy with over 100 carbon points and containing nickel, molybdenum, tungsten, and vanadium. So that defines exactly what mithril is better than.
Again, you can change all of this in your setting, totally fine, but that's a divergence from the rules. According to the rules as written, it's clearly not a soft metal or an alloy.
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Why would mithril be soft? I don't feel like that is supported by the rules or by Tolkien.
Well, the rules are one thing. Tolkien's Middle-Earth is another.
Gandalf says that mithril "could be beaten like copper". So it wasn't hard to work in its pure state. The harder than steel armor was an alloy made of mithril and...? Only the Dwarves know.
Certainly, no mithril weapons exist in Tolkien's work (it appears in armor, jewelry, and writing/pictures). It may have been hard, but that doesn't mean it could hold an edge. It was light, so not ideal for a mace.
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but you can't reasonably argue
However, Treasure Companion says it gives a +20 item bonus and a +30 strength bonus. That pretty clearly indicates it makes a weapon that is as effective as Black Alloy (+20) and is even more resistant to breakage than Black Alloy (by an additional +10, which is as great a difference as that between hard iron and high carbon steel). Furthermore, it cannot be worked through non-magical means, requiring a 15th level spell to shape. So that says it is less malleable than Black Alloy. Mithril is consistently referred to as a metal and not an alloy. Treasure Companion also defines Black Alloy as a steel alloy with over 100 carbon points and containing nickel, molybdenum, tungsten, and vanadium. So that defines exactly what mithril is better than.
Again, you can change all of this in your setting, totally fine, but that's a divergence from the rules. According to the rules as written, it's clearly not a soft metal or an alloy.
I have at least an average Reasoning and 3 Ranks in argue: Just ask the Mrs.
The book does give stats for mithril. Mithril requires magic to work. So these are the bonuses after magic has been applied; after it's been worked. It could very well be soft until then. Does it matter? I've not found any reference that requires magic for mining mithril. Only working it. You don't get the bonus until magic is used.
Maybe it's a crystal aligning process that makes it hard..
But back to the original poster's comment,
If the material is already made into coins, then it's probably already hard.
I'd say it's more rare than Tantalum, at least.
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Or you can do as I have done. Make mithril an element of its own. On my old world of Udava, mithril was actually a trans-actinide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactinide_element), non-radioactive element known as mithrium. Also see Island of Stability (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_of_stability). Since it was trans-actinide, its density forced the use of magic/power to work and forge it since the normal smithing and forging methods could do nothing to it except heat it, but never close to the "red" heat stage.
The only major problem was the density of it forced the usage of magic/power spells to "lighten" it enough to be wieldable as a weapon or armor. However, its density also made it incredibly strong, and added impact/unbalance effects naturally. I ruled that even though magic/power "lightened" it enough to wield as a weapon, its density still imparted a natural additional impact and/or unbalance effect.
However, that was Udava. With my new world of Onaviu, I will be ruling the same way for mithrium, negatium, and basdrunium.
How others may view/rule on this is their perogative. I just thought I'd throw the idea into the barrel.
rmfr
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Mithril is consistently referred to as a metal and not an alloy.
Many metals are refered to as metals because they are metal. However, the vast majority of metals we all deal with are actually alloys...metal alloys (i.e. still metal). Think elements and compunds, Most metals in their pure state are less than useful, or at least far less useful than when made/used in an alloy.
Your game mechanics look fine to me, but they do ignore real life. That is no biggie, but you are misrepresenting the reality of working metal. Regardless, if you want your mithrel weapons a dime a dozen and made only of 99.9% pure mithrel, there can be no harm in that. I do think this approach misses out on many opportunities for adventure and intruigue, as many alloys historically were closely guarded secrets of smiths, kings and govts. There would be some mithrel weapons, developed for the superior qualities no steel provides (hurts weres, harms creatures requiring magic to harm, could hold a cleaving enchantment nicely, etc). But like the afore mentioned meteoric iron, most would be used for NON weapon production (which HISTORY has proven via the meteoric relics found: some weapons, most not). As the ONLY iron alloy occuring naturally on the planet, it was far to valuable to use otherwise.
In closing, stating that we diverge from the rules by imagining mithrel is an alloy is an insulting statement. You know just how we should play do you?
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I concede the point about Middle Earth.
Treasure Companion seems pretty clear to me that it is not treated as an alloy, e.g. for purposes of needing spells for creating alloys. It doesn't say anything about purity, but it doesn't concern itself with the purity of iron either, which we can assume is not 99.9% but is also not treated as an alloy for game purposes.
Again I'm not saying anything about how things should be. You can do many interesting things in your own game by modifying the rules, totally fine. That they are interesting does not change what the rules say.
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TC does make it quite clear that plain +0 iron is *not* pure iron (which it includes as 'soft iron'). TC classifies +0 ("hard iron") iron as form of steel.
I would point out that the TC treatment of mithril, with its insanely valuable mithril coins, is actually in contradiction of the core rules. It doesn't just add to the core rules in this respect; it is outright revisionist. Under the core rules, mithril obvious can be made into coin without expensive enchantment.
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I play in a high magic, high reward, high fantasy type game. I love Players getting to 20th level and beyond, I love magic (Treasure Companion and most companions are bursting with it!) and I think that it is fantastic to see a players face when they find treasure! :)
Having that said. I just need some help with Treasure Companion. Can anyone please help me with the costs of these items?
Sword:
1) 4'long
2) Mithril
3) Orc Slaying
4) x2 powerpoint multipler for Paladins (or Channeling whichever is cheaper)
Staff:
1) Casts Lightning Bolt per charge (or does it cost as many charges as the spells level?)
2) Acts as a +3 spell adder (which adds spells to the caster no matter what level for their first 3 spells of the day correct?)
3) Made of Dir Wood
Suite of Drake Leather
1) +10 to DB
2) Returns via long door
3) +10 to climbing
I just need some help with tabulating the costs as the TC nor the Alchemy Companion does a really good job of itemizing the lists for a flow from start to finish of making an item.
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BTW, I have seen long door on weapons but not on armor.
MDC
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Work Mithrel is level 15, x2pp is a general III, also level 15 an Slay Orcs requires a Weapon IV, level 25.
Base Cost for an item is (total levels of all spells required to make item) x (time in weeks needed to create item) = gp cost.
Selling price can be additionally multiplied by level of alchemist, though I ignore this rule.
Section 9.0 of TC covers cost. The big change for me is I altered weeks to days in contruction time. I also only require one Make or Work spell.
So, a mithrel sword takes 15 days to make (15 weeks by RAW). Adding Orc Slaying requires another 25 days, and adding the x2pp requires 30 additional days (each additional enchantment increases time to construct by x2. Adding another level 15 enchantment would require an additional 45 days...again, weeks by RAW).
So 70 days at 8hrs of work a day and 55pp's per day. No small understaking. The cost would be total level of spells (55) multiplies by time to make (70) or 3850gp. By RAW, since this requires a Guild master level Alchemist to produce, the selling price is 8x base cost, or 30800gp. At 1/4 ounce coins, thats 481.25 POUNDS of gold. A rediculous ammount to be sure. Without the multiplaction in selling cost, it is still a solid 60 lbs of gold, enough gold in RM to live very comfortably on for 100 years. I assume cost to construct is 60% of base cost, the rest is profit. If using the GM Law sale/resale tables, this balances very nicely.
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Yammahopper,
I like the idea of using the tables in GM law for selling items. +1 idea.
MDC
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Anyone have an opinion on how much mithril is needed to weave into a set of Leather to make it +20 magical to DB?
Strictly sticking to the item construction rules in Treasure Companion (TC) this is IMO not possible. For a +20 magic leather armor an Alchemist would need +15 non-magical leather base material, like fell beast hide, and the use the corresponding spell allowing him to enhance this to +20 magical leather. Mithril would not help here, it would only help in the creation of metal weapons/armor.
I have a group with 20 mithril coins and they want to use them to make stuff "magical" by finding an alchemist with the "work mithril" spell to interweave the coins into thread and sew them into leather to provide a +20 DB.
Work Mithril is indeed use for creating mithril items, but not a leather armor.
According to the Alchemist Companion Mithril provides a bonus of +20. The question is ... now MUCH mithril is that? ;D Thanks all!
For weapons and armor you can gauge the necessary amount by using the weight of the weapon or armor. Usually you would end up using a lot of coins that were necessary...
The PCs should IMO better go to a shop and invest their mithril coins into buying non-magical +15 leather armor and other items. Non-magical items are much cheaper than magical ones, especially those made of mithril, and they will probably end up with +15 leather armor for each member of the group instead of perhaps equipping one member with a +20 mithril item by over-stretching the rules.
Just my 2 cents
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The PCs should IMO better go to a shop and invest their mithril coins into buying non-magical +15 leather armor and other items. Non-magical items are much cheaper than magical ones, especially those made of mithril, and they will probably end up with +15 leather armor for each member of the group instead of perhaps equipping one member with a +20 mithril item by over-stretching the rules.
Just my 2 cents
Thanks for the 2 cents! I play my games where the Characters start off fairly poor and by 7th or 10th level they have mithril coins, magic weapons (which they don't have to upkeep), and mounts like Wyverns, bears and Lesser (dumb)Drakes. I even let artifacts enter the game if they get to level 15th or 20th. :-*
Rolemaster, IMHO, is a FANTASTIC GAME but its simply too deadly to hold back on throwing magic at Players. :-[ I often allow 50th level runes/scrolls, higher level healing NPCs that heal simply for the "greater good" and +20 Magic items.
I want the players to feel the power of the game. Heck, there are more divers magic items in RM than I have seen in ANY other game system I have ever played. :o When a PC can get hit with 3OE rolls in a game session and die, I don't mind throwing them a +25 Shield which will cast fly I at will or allow "spider walking" boots (constant) in the same group. ::)
I also am a big fan of making AT3, AT4 or AT9 which protects as 13 or 16 or even 20! ;D Been playing for 25 years and it is highly likely that no Character will live beyond 7th or 8th, BUT if they do, I like them to be loaded up with cool and nifty gadgets! 8)
Drev
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We play with a little less magic and also stick relatively close to the rules. And since - according to the rules (Treasure Companion for magic items in our RMSS/RMFRP case) - magic items are so much more expensive than non-magic items, our characters first get all their gear to, lets say, +15 or +20 non-magic gear and perhaps an occasional +5 magic weapon to battle monsters that cannot be harmed by mundane weapons, before investing into the expensive magic items with +20 bonuses or higher. IIRC magical +15 or higher armor according to TC costs thousands of gold pieces. And since we don't use rules for damage to armor or weapons there exists little additional benefit of using magical armor. And for a few thousand gp the group could buy non-magical +15 or +20 armor for the whole group.
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Ah, gotcha Ecthelion. Yea if you play with the "degrade" or "upkeep" rules for normal armor and weapons it is a maintenance NIGHTMARE. Magic stops all that ;D
So, as a GM I just upped what the players got from modules, dunegeons and adventures (little secret, once the players start playing in 6th-10th modules I actually use the DND gold straight from the books! hehe it actually works out well and equates more to the TC values!)