Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Rolemaster => RMSS/FRP => Topic started by: danskmacabre on January 02, 2011, 02:58:52 PM
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Hi all.
I have all the RMSS books (I used to run RM many years ago).
I also have the core RMFRP book.
As I said I used to rum RM (RMSS) many years ago (and before that RM2, currently called classic I believe), so I know that system fairly well.
On a whim a few years ago I bought RMFRP to see what it's like.
To me RMFRP looks like a sort of intro to RM which can be built up with various other books (the 3 spell books, arms law and player companion).
My question is, since I have all RMSS books, is it worth taking a serious look at RMFRP at all?
Are the rulesets essentially the same?
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IMHO the rules are essentially the same and you do not need to do anything. I use my RMSS books instead of the copy of RMFRP and have no problems as I like more info at my finger tips.
If you have any other Q's please post them.
MDC
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Great thanks, that's sort of what I figured.
I just wanted to make sure.
I love the layout of RMFRP though and it's nice the the core book is a hardback as well.
I hope to get a gaming group together to play RM.
I used to run HARP some years back as well (I have all the HARP books as well).
I currently run Pathfinder actually (a derivitive of DnD 3.5) , as I just couldn't find players for HARP.
I've recently decided to look over the RM rules again to see if I want to make the effort to try and get a RM group together, as it's probably better known than HARP.
Actually, apart from character gen, RM really isn't much more complex than HARP and I get to keep the proper weapon tables (which I love). I know HARP has some enhanced weapon tables as well (in the codex?), but I kinda miss running RM.
I guess I'll stick with RMSS, since I have everything for that anyway.
Now to see if I can dig up some RM players lol .
Thanks for the info. :)
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ICEwebring has this very detailed break out of all the differences:
http://www.icewebring.com/rmss-vs-rmfrp/
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The only RMFRP book that is amust buy if you have all the RMSS books is CHARACTER KAW. This is because the Talent Law is essentially reprinted here and is much more balanced.
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Wow thanks for that link, it was a very interesting read.
Well after reading all that, it did make me more tempted to have a closer look at RMFRP.
But after some thought, I will stick with RMSS.
It looks to me RMFRP has similar information spread out over more books.
I personally prefer my rules in as few books as possible (with the exception of the Essense, Channeling, Mentalism books being separated, which is a great idea).
There are quite a few differences between the rules, but nothing major that would tempt me to actually buy a new rules set.
Actually having said I had all the RMSS books, that's not true at all.
I meant to say core rules, being RMSS core book, Spell lore, Arms lore, plus non-core being firearms lore, underground races.
I don't have the talent lore which in that link seems to say it's one of the more central books.
TBH, after reading about it, I'm not sure I particularly need it, although I'll probably buy it if I see it in a games store just for a read.
I also don't have any of the other many expansion books (apart from the ones I mentioned), but I don't really need them either.
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The only RMFRP book that is amust buy if you have all the RMSS books is CHARACTER LAW. This is because the Talent Law is essentially reprinted here and is much more balanced.
Is Character law/Talent law really that good/worth getting?
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The only RMFRP book that is amust buy if you have all the RMSS books is CHARACTER LAW. This is because the Talent Law is essentially reprinted here and is much more balanced.
Is Character law/Talent law really that good/worth getting?
If ya have not been using Talen Law, then no. If you like Talent Law, then yes, as it is a major improvement.
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If ya have not been using Talent Law, then no. If you like Talent Law, then yes, as it is a major improvement.
Ah ok, well If I see Character Law then, I'll probably grab that and take a look and won't bother with Talent Law.
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Based the the books you listed above I would recommend you looking at the 3 Comp, the Chann Comp, Ess Comp and Ment Comp. They each have some great material for a game for players and GM's both.
I also do not know if you are going to be creating you own world, using someone else's or building from the ground up. If so you may want to get the Chann Comp and use that in your world building detailing your clerics and priests. There is also an article on the Guild Companion that details other non-channeling professions worshiping deities. I do not know the name but it also is worth checking out IMHO as it also adds a lot more flavor to the game world.
Another big game changer IMHO is adding combat styles to your game as it allows Pure Arms users some bigger bangs at later levels vs spell users, ie multiple attacks. The rules are listed in the RMC Combat Companion but they can be used for RMSS/FRP.
MDC
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The only RMFRP book that is amust buy if you have all the RMSS books is CHARACTER LAW. This is because the Talent Law is essentially reprinted here and is much more balanced.
Is Character law/Talent law really that good/worth getting?
If ya have not been using Talen Law, then no. If you like Talent Law, then yes, as it is a major improvement.
I'm gonna have to disagree here. Character law/Talent law makes character generation a lot of fun and add a lot of flavour to the characters.
If you have (so called) power players in your group and that is percieved to be a problem, then it might cause some troubles, as talents may change the balance of the game.
Here is a lengthy discussion on talents:
http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=4715.0
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Based the the books you listed above I would recommend you looking at the 3 Comp, the Chann Comp, Ess Comp and Ment Comp. They each have some great material for a game for players and GM's both.
So the Ess, Chan and Mentalism companions are more than just spell books then?
I also do not know if you are going to be creating you own world, using someone else's or building from the ground up. If so you may want to get the Chann Comp and use that in your world building detailing your clerics and priests. There is also an article on the Guild Companion that details other non-channeling professions worshiping deities. I do not know the name but it also is worth checking out IMHO as it also adds a lot more flavor to the game world.
I'll be using Shadow World.
I still have the boxed set from MANY years ago. I may well buy the latest version as my version is probably somewhere in the region of 20 years old I think.
I hope I can buy the paper version though I just hate PDFs.
Another big game changer IMHO is adding combat styles to your game as it allows Pure Arms users some bigger bangs at later levels vs spell users, ie multiple attacks. The rules are listed in the RMC Combat Companion but they can be used for RMSS/FRP.
Wasn't there an edtion of RMFRP that came in a sleeved box or something?
I'm quite tempted to get the RMFRP books anyway, it's not like Roleplaying is an expensive hobby really. If I just buy the various RMFRP books I'll be sorted for another several years :D
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So the Ess, Chan and Mentalism companions are more than just spell books then?
The RMSS versions, and the reprinted RMFRP versions, of the "Channeling Companion", "Essence Companion" and "Mentalism Companion" are different than the "...of Channeling", "...of Essence" and "...of Mentlism" books. Be careful about that when buying them. The "...of XXX" books are really just Spell Law broken down into parts.
The "Companion" books actually introduce new Professions, Spell Lists, and other various optional rules. You might want to try and find the "Martial Arts Companion" also as it introduces fighting styles that can help out the flavor of fighter types.
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Ah ok, I don't really need extra material really (the companions), I'll be happy with the spell lists that the "of XXXX" books provide.
Actually I'm happy enough with RMSS Spell law, that provides all I need for magic.
I'm not really a fan of lots of extra content, I feel the core rules provide everything I need.
I'll still grab Character Law one day for a read though.
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Unless you're comfortable making your own new professions up you might look at the ones presented in the books. Just my personal favorite thing about expansion books... the new professions that is. Not to plug my own book out of biased, but if you want to be able to create customized Clerics (or "Priests" as presented in the book) you might check out the Channeling Companion at least. That way, if someone wants to play a pure channeling cleric/priest they have a way to make it not quite so generic.
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It might worth a look if/when I end of running RM again and a player wants to go down that road.
What with the ownership issues with ICE atm, will there still be paper versions of the books being printed in future or will it go PDF only?
I expect the books will be available in old stock in shops for some time anyway mind.
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It might worth a look if/when I end of running RM again and a player wants to go down that road.
What with the ownership issues with ICE atm, will there still be paper versions of the books being printed in future or will it go PDF only?
I expect the books will be available in old stock in shops for some time anyway mind.
Whatever they have or obtain the rights to will be printed in PDF I'm sure, but I believe there is a 'print on demand' method they are planning to utilize. I suspect the printed versions of the books would be slightly more expensive that way, but I really don't know much about it. People could also buy the PDF and print it out, but it would be nice if some 'professional' quality printed books were available.
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I'm not really a fan of PDF versions of RPGs. When I run an RPG I like to have a physical book present that I cna flip through.
I just find it difficult to navigate my way through a PDF.
These "Print on demand" copies. Will they be printed in a "professional" style book, or will it be just some print house printing it out and sticking it in a plastic folder?
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BTW, Combat styles are no in RMFRP or RMSS basic books but only in the Martial Arts Comp (MAC) or in RMC Combat Comp (CC).
IMHO as I said above it gives pure arms PC's a big boost at higher or mid levels to help them out vs spell casters. ie something to look forward to by buying ranks instead of just more OB.
MDC
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These "Print on demand" copies. Will they be printed in a "professional" style book, or will it be just some print house printing it out and sticking it in a plastic folder?
They will be genuine books and subject to the page count and whether we've used colour interiors or not, you will be able to choose whether you want them perfectbound softcovers or hardcovers.
Best wishes,
Nicholas
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OK interesting.
I'm afraid the last time I actually GMd RM in any version was about 1998 I suppose (maybe earlier, I can't remember) so my experience of the "later" companion works is very low.
If I can manage to get some people together who will play RM, I will start taking a closer look at additional material.
It's really hard to get people willing to play RM, I spent about 1 year searching online for players in my area and finally gave up.
Thereafter I tried finding players for Stormbinger (based in Runequest) and also was unsuccessful.
After that I bought Pathfinder and looked for players and got 5 players fairly quickly. So my existing team of players want to play PF, which I can understand, as that's what I "Advertised" for.
I have tentatively suggested giving RM a go, but the reaction is generally negative.
I'm going to look around again for some new players for an additional "mid week" game to see if I can get a RM campaign off the ground.
It seems to me non-DnD type games have a lot less players or people who want to give alternatives a go, which is a shame.
I feel also RM in general still has bad press with the usual "Ruls bloat" and "lots of tables" criticisms which scares people off.
That and as we all know, a lot of people don't even know ICE still exists anymore or the game supported.
I DID run HARP for a couple of years around 2005 when I was living in another part of the UK, but I don't live there now and I can't find anyone willing to try HARP either around here.
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They will be genuine books and subject to the page count and whether we've used colour interiors or not, you will be able to choose whether you want them perfectbound softcovers or hardcovers.
Best wishes,
Nicholas
Ah that's great news then. :)
I don't mind if it's a bit more expensive actually, Roleplaying is a comparitively cheap hobby anyway, so if a book costs a few £s more for print on demand, then that's fine with me.
I really hope ICE pulls through this one, it would be a shame to see it go under.
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! really hope ICE pulls through this one, it would be a shame to see it go under.
Whoa there, not so fast - there isn't a problem with ICE at all. The owners of the licences (Aurigas) have simply transferred them to the Guild Companion Publications.
There will be differences around here as the licences have changed hands but I'm sure you'll find that they're all good ones. :)
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OK fair enough, the post of the front page sounds pretty ominous and isn't entirely clear what's going on.
But if all is well then that's good :)
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! really hope ICE pulls through this one, it would be a shame to see it go under.
Whoa there, not so fast - there isn't a problem with ICE at all. The owners of the licences (Aurigas) have simply transferred them to the Guild Companion Publications.
There will be differences around here as the licences have changed hands but I'm sure you'll find that they're all good ones. :)
I've heard this before. I'm just saying, no one is coming to a "fast assumption" by daring to imagine we are witnessing RM's death knell.
Hope and reality are two different things. Reality: the owners have giving up "considerable profits" just to keep the company afloat. The situation is so bad in thier eyes that now a total restructuring is required. Ever been through one? No part of it guarantees survival.
I hope too. In the end it will be the market (not supportive of TT in general) and their new market plan (the "we shall see" part).
My advice: if there is a book/pdf that you want, buy it now. Might not be readily available in a year or two.
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I've heard this before. I'm just saying, no one is coming to a "fast assumption" by daring to imagine we are witnessing RM's death knell.
Hope and reality are two different things. Reality: the owners have giving up "considerable profits" just to keep the company afloat. The situation is so bad in thier eyes that now a total restructuring is required. Ever been through one? No part of it guarantees survival.
I hope too. In the end it will be the market (not supportive of TT in general) and their new market plan (the "we shall see" part).
My advice: if there is a book/pdf that you want, buy it now. Might not be readily available in a year or two.
In terms of RM, I don't think it will get any worse than it already is and, hopefully, it will improve. I would say it couldn't get any worse, but I guess technically it could. There were virtually no distribution, marketing, or sales efforts being made towards the table top games to my knowledge. The only things that seem to have had any focus on them were republishing an outdated version of the game to a very limited customer base and a series of ideas that either never saw the light of day or flopped. Granted, how many of us have any decent game stores anywhere near us anymore is another major contributor to the issue. I wonder how anyone other than WotC are doing.
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I am not jumping in as a Mod but as a poster IMHO this discussion has strayed a bit from the original posters question.
I think we all can say that we hoped things had gone better for everyone involved and now that there is a change we hope both sides (or as many sides as there are) do better in their next endeavor's and leave what did and did not happen to history.
MDC
BTW, Once again a volunteer that knows nothing about the new changes and very little of the old things that did or did not happen.
MDC again
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Oh ok, does this mean drop the subject in this thread or drop the subject in general?
The reason why I ask here (and the conversation did drift in that direction), is that there's a long discussion about it all here anyway:
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=554368
So whilst it wasn't my intention to push questions in about the state of ICE, it's already being discussed elsewhere in detail anyway and I'm sure many people are very curious about what's happening.
Anyway, feel free to edit this post and delete the link if inapopropriate.
I'll drop the subject from now until a mod replies.
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Why not create a new topic about it in case you want to discuss something different than RMSS vs RMFRP? You get more participants if the topic match the subject....I almost ignored this thread totally since I knew the original question had already been answered.
BTW I would say the discussion on rpg.net is not that interesting...too few people participating and their "dream gold edition" that they say would draw them back is terribly hard to realize.
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I was going to raise another thread, but I wasn't sure if the mods wanted that sort of discussion going on here yet, so I'm waiting for a mod to reply first.
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Ah I can see this subject is already being discussed elsewhere on the forum anyway.
I'll just leave it at that then.
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I was going to raise another thread, but I wasn't sure if the mods wanted that sort of discussion going on here yet, so I'm waiting for a mod to reply first.
You can start a new thread it is no problem.
MDC
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This RMSS vesus RMFRP is a moot point. They are the same game. Reformat it into a new series of books and move on, shucking the RMSS/RMFRP division.
Of course, the old group couldnt choose between between RM2 and RMSS. Me suspects the RM2 crowd has taken over, but that is purely conjecture on my behalf.
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You can start a new thread it is no problem.
MDC
I don't really need to now, I got my answer in another thread on these forums.
Thanks for the thumbs up though.
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This RMSS vesus RMFRP is a moot point. They are the same game. Reformat it into a new series of books and move on, shucking the RMSS/RMFRP division.
Of course, the old group couldnt choose between between RM2 and RMSS. Me suspects the RM2 crowd has taken over, but that is purely conjecture on my behalf.
I think I'll stick with RMSS with a book here and there cherry picked from RMFRP.
But if there was a re-formatted version and dropping of RMSS / RMFRP, I agree it would be better and I would buy it.
RMFRP is laid out better, but I have all the core RMSS books, which is why I'm sticking with it for the time being.
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This RMSS vesus RMFRP is a moot point. They are the same game. Reformat it into a new series of books and move on, shucking the RMSS/RMFRP division.
Of course, the old group couldnt choose between between RM2 and RMSS. Me suspects the RM2 crowd has taken over, but that is purely conjecture on my behalf.
I think two two primary points of moving to a new version, other than simple business reasons, would be to bring the RM2/RMC and RMSS/RMFRP camps together and to try and generate entirely new Rolemaster fans. Not an easy thing, but I think it can be accomplished (to the point that any table top game system is going to these days).
Your idea is right on the money based on what is currently available danskmacabre, there's no reason why you can't use RMSS and just throw in RMFRP material. I doubt little if any conversion will ever be needed.