Author Topic: Frenzy  (Read 3165 times)

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Offline munchy

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Frenzy
« on: May 20, 2009, 03:38:44 PM »
I've got a question or some on the frenzy skill.

Has anyone seen this one in action in game? Taking at least two rounds to get into frenzy seems to be quite a long time, a lot can happen in two rounds.

How do you handle the rule on the berserker not being allowed to use "custom combat styles" when frenzied? Why shouldn't a berserker be able to wield two swords, hacking left and right at opponents or with both at one target in front of him?

That's it for now, I hope you can help.
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Offline Mattiyaho

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Re: Frenzy
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2009, 05:04:45 PM »
One GM ran three bezerker Orks against us two keept the meatshields busy while the third used frenzy then his buddies got out of the way and used frenzy while we were being keeped busy. The only thing thaft kept the party from being wiped out was that two of the Orks started to attack each other and acted simotaniously and killed eachother. The party was made of four members and the orks were at half the level of the party members and this was a hard encounter, so the skill is powerful and the time to enact it and the restriction of no combat styles keeps it more balanced

Offline jasonbrisbane

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Re: Frenzy
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2009, 10:09:24 PM »
Hi munchy,

I used this a LOONNGG time ago with the Chief orc Barbarian having Frenzy. The Orc "shaman" (i.e. mage with minor healing) casting defensive spells for the mage over the two rounds whilst the cheif saw the last two orc soldiers go down. He made the frenzy and went balastic and downed an injured player in the first round before the other PC got a REALLY good shot and downed him in the second. PC's killed the shaman out of principle...

Sort of ruined what was going to be a Rweally good and long fight.....

Anyway, your question about combat styles...
Frenzy is about losing control in a combat situation and going beyond the bounds of normal human endurance.
(GRanted I dont have the books with me and dont know what the description of Frenzy does, but) I allow Power attack as this is a more of a "wild attack", but I wont allow a monk to use a monk style as this is a using a trained ability with his "concentrating on his combat traiing to overcome his natural animalistic instinct to fight in a different way". Frenzy is about total loss of comtrol. The only thing he really has is the ability to pick the closest enemy and attack him...

Yes Frenzy is about total loss of control, but this is what is good about it.

I always think of frenzy as a "wild attacker" thing with no control. Its a hard one to run with but We always talk about "would you allow this as a GM" and then agree with a common course of action. Since we all take turns at GM'ing any favouritism then comes back to bite us on the ass, so its all good in the end!
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Offline providence13

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Re: Frenzy
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2009, 11:57:18 PM »
I used to agree totally about the "out of control" Frenzy.

Of course, there is a lot less control. When in/under Frenzy, you may injure a comrade/get locked into the fugue of the fight-"nothing exists but the fight" attitude.

Saying that, IMO it has a lot less to do with mindless wild rage and more to do with total disregard for your own safety/well being (or others). More akin to a psychotic break.. It's not so much out of control, as just using your reptile brain; anyone up is a threat! Drop 'em all!

In the games I've been in, we have allowed players to use 2 weapons. The bad guys can too! But you still can't parry, no shield bonus, etc. The reasoning is... Once frenzied, the fist will likely be a tight ball. It's not like you're going to relax and drop anything on purpose. Why not let them use 2 weapons if they start Frenzy with 'em? What I wouldn't allow is the weapon to be changed for something else.(unless the crit says so) Too much higher brain, IMO. Not mindless but unpredictable, single minded drunk an entire 1/2 gallon o' whiskey rage. No weapon katas, combat styles or fancy moves.

In School, it just takes one prep round... I do think the difficulty is too easy to do for the benefits. And likely the character wouldn't even remember everything they did until they slept again. Then maybe, they would dream bits and pieces as though through unfamiliar eyes and in a blood red haze...
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Offline munchy

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Re: Frenzy
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2009, 02:16:31 AM »
"clenching fists", that was sort of along the lines I was thinking. I would not have dreamed of allowing a character to use special combat style aspects but it makes sense to have someone allowed to fight with two weapons if he is holding them. Question would be how that works out in combat game terms. Does he attack two time like in Two Weapon Combo or like with a Paired Weapon OR (the mean way ...) does he have to split his OB evenly between the two attacks, similar to the combat action double slash. All would make sort of sense. Of course he cannot parry or distribute his OB as he wants, those matters are no longer available in his frenzied brain. The rule of only attacking one opponent at a time would of course also still apply.
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Offline providence13

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Re: Frenzy
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2009, 08:52:02 AM »
That is a really good question.

Both attacks one person or split between 2....
I'm interested in the answer to that one too.

Off the top o' me 'ead, here's how I see it:
If the Frenzied Barbar gets knocked down.....roll a fumble for both weapons. If dropped, they're unlikely to pick them up. (If the PC does want to retrieve their favorite sword-have them roll to get out of Frenzy. Oh, yeah, there is an arrow in my lung!) It's not inherent/natural to this "animals" attack. Now, as they get up, they're still Frenzied, right? But even toddlers can "sit out", put their feet under them and push up with their arms to get up because it is instinct. (I'm not implying that all toddlers are berserkers...) I'm going about this the long way to show that using all of your limbs is inherent to human animals....for combat though..?

Do we have a psychologist in the house?
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Offline jolt

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Re: Frenzy
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2009, 10:56:41 AM »
Do we have a psychologist in the house?

No, but I have played one in a game.  ;D

munchy: We play it your "mean" way - having to split OB.  I always pictured Frenzy as borderline frothing at the mouth.  True, even then you aren't going to forget your weapon skills but to use two weapons effectively requires a certain degree of finesse (it's bad form to lop your own head off) that I feel would be gone while Frenzied.

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Offline RandalThor

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Re: Frenzy
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2009, 05:15:21 PM »
You could describe the frenzied individual as having a sword in both hands, and even say that one round it is one then the other in another round. But, they would not be able to use the swords tandemly with any real skill, imo.
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Offline Ecthelion

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Re: Frenzy
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2009, 02:51:30 AM »
Taking at least two rounds to get into frenzy seems to be quite a long time, a lot can happen in two rounds.
It just means that it is an action that is usually prepared shortly before combat. That is IMO perfectly OK.
Quote
How do you handle the rule on the berserker not being allowed to use "custom combat styles" when frenzied? Why shouldn't a berserker be able to wield two swords, hacking left and right at opponents or with both at one target in front of him?
Of course especially your example of the berserker hacking at his foes with two weapons is something I could well imagine. OTOH the question is where to draw the line. E.g. why not allow a fighter using the Double Weapon style from ML with his spear to still attack twice with his weapon while frenzied, or should the Paired Weapons also be allowed? Or do all these skills, including TWC, require a level of concentration which, while frenzied, is not available to the character? I mean, there is a difference between blindly hacking with both weapons and doing this in a skillful way, i.e. with reasonable OB.

To cut a long story short we don't allow Combat Styles while frenzied, just as the HARP rules say.

Offline Nejira

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Re: Frenzy
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2009, 04:42:07 PM »
Speaking of Frenzy, I was reading it tonight and ran across a line saying "The character receives a bonus of +20 against all Stuns
while frenzied". What does that mean? Do you get to resist stun in HARP?
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Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Frenzy
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2009, 05:42:43 PM »
HARP core rules, page 95 - right column, under stunned, it explains that yes there is a RR versus being stunned.


Offline Gladmire

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Re: Frenzy
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2009, 07:35:03 PM »
My 2 Cents..lol ;D
All the explanations here are very good as to what "Frenzy" is and how it works. This skill is very fun, powerfull and realistic when used properly. One thing I would  like to add (in a realistic view) is that when your adrenalin is running and all the blood in your extremity's go to the heart you loose what we call "loss of fine motor skills".This means that if you are in combat you can not possibly type on a key board accurately or pick a lock with out some sort of penalty. This is how I always explained this skill to my players when they wanted to use "Fine motor skills" with frenzy, thats not to say you cannot use two weapons. ;)
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Offline Exluso

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Re: Frenzy
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2021, 04:03:02 AM »
Let's revive this topic, just to keep all reasoning about Frenzy in the same place.
I do have a question about the following detail:
Quote
Characters cannot parry or use any combat skills or talents except weapon or brawling skills. ...

Rules-wise the term talent encompass a wide range of effects.
Common sense suggests that "passive" talents should still be in place (i.e. bonus from Dense musculature or Darkvision) also while in a Frenzy status.
But we all know common sense does not always sit at our RPG tables and I have to deal with different opinions among my players.
And here I am looking for external opinions.

The question is, disregarding common sense, do you think using Frenzy + passive talent bonuses would make it too powerful and unbalanced?

Any opinion is welcome, thanks!