Author Topic: What do people Know  (Read 10333 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Terry K. Amthor

  • Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,976
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Great Book
    • Eidolon Studio
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2008, 05:06:24 PM »
I'm sure I've read it elsewhere as well, but in the Grand campaign, the description of Raek has:
"Also, the degree of acceptance varies depending on
the prevailing deity. Among the Lords of Orhan: Kuor:
disapproval; Valris: neutral; Reann: neutral; Jaysek &
Kieron: acceptance (and indulgence, esp. by Kieron);
Eissa: neutral; Phaon: disapproval; Oriana: mild disapproval; Cay:
strong disapproval; Iloura: indignant distaste (it is ?unnatural?);
Iorak: no opinion; Teris: complete acceptance."

Oh, my goodness, I had completely forgotten about that. Well, I think we've established that the Lords are more about 'law' than about 'good'; and they are hardly a monolithic entity. I'm pretty sure I did the Cay thing with more than a little bit of my tongue stuck in my cheek. (Maybe he's in a little bit of denial?) It should be noted that the feared Khomari warriors of NW Emer don't follow Cay. And I enjoyed Tom's comment about people interpreting the gods in different ways. In our world we manage to have one god interpret his wishes in endless ways; though the Lords might be a bit more active...  ;)

The Grand Campaign should be taken with a bit of a grain of salt, as it is a draft of a never-published module. There is also a PDF posted on my site:

http://homepage.mac.com/terbob/FileSharing1.html

I should reload that stuff zipped, my apologies.
Terry K. Amthor
Shadow World Author, Rolemaster & SpaceMaster Co-Designer, ICE co-founder.
Eidolon Studio Art Director


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
-- Clarke's First Law.

Offline Elrik

  • Seeker of Wisdom
  • **
  • Posts: 273
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2008, 08:13:39 PM »
Yea know dutch206, you are the second person to remind me about corruption points, then I say "Yea! That works." and then forget them! I will use them because they will solve problems. Am I remember correctly? Unlife Points for None Spell Users?

metallion, you are 200% correct. I also agree with Don that the library was destroyed. I always got the impression that the library pulled information in, like a vortex and not as much got out as we wished. Till they started burning things... At that point you grab what you feel is the most important.

I think it also helps that there are machines in Nomikos that help to maintain temp and humidity. Books don't always have to be rewritten which saves time and money. I don't remember Nomikos being assaulted, although many people tried to claim it for Honour!

I'm told it's my duty to fight against the law
That wizardry's my trade and I was born to wade through gore
I just want to be a lover, not a red-eyed screaming ghoul
I wish it'd picked another to be it's killing tool

Offline Elrik

  • Seeker of Wisdom
  • **
  • Posts: 273
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2008, 11:00:27 PM »
"And every educated man knows that the Ess?nce Lords destroyed themselves with their technology." Chapter 21 of Terry's web story.

Terry! Your Killen me! lol
I'm told it's my duty to fight against the law
That wizardry's my trade and I was born to wade through gore
I just want to be a lover, not a red-eyed screaming ghoul
I wish it'd picked another to be it's killing tool

Offline TomOBedlam

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 64
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2008, 03:34:03 AM »
I'm pretty sure I did the Cay thing with more than a little bit of my tongue stuck in my cheek. (Maybe he's in a little bit of denial?)

Is this where we bring back the discussion about Jaistin, the wandering bard?  ;)

I have an article for the Esov Enquirer in the back of my head (Or its "real soon to debut" cousin - The Haalkitaine Howler) regarding Letys Hillsire - The heiress to the owner of the largest chain of Inns i Rhakhaan. She is a maker of scandals, and has on occasion been seen leaving coaches without a proper escort.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

Offline egdcltd

  • Revered Elder
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,302
  • OIC Points +70/-70
    • Azukail Games
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2008, 04:48:43 AM »
Has anyone on Kulthea invented the Guttenburg press? I'd assume not, even though some of the elves are fairly technologically advanced - Namar-Tol looks to be at the right level to make it if I'm reading SWMA4 correctly - as this would make a huge difference in the amount of information commonly available.
I made some things! Azukail Games

Offline Schwarz

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #45 on: September 25, 2008, 06:18:52 AM »
I remember reading a note that printing does exist, but the movable letters used by Gutenberg are unknown yet.

There are a couple of 'high tech' (TL 6-7) cultures with little contact to the more open cultures of Kulthea that may use them tough, Clycallah or Khomal eventually.

Offline Elrik

  • Seeker of Wisdom
  • **
  • Posts: 273
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #46 on: September 25, 2008, 06:19:36 AM »
I thought Sel-Kay had one...?
I'm told it's my duty to fight against the law
That wizardry's my trade and I was born to wade through gore
I just want to be a lover, not a red-eyed screaming ghoul
I wish it'd picked another to be it's killing tool

Offline Schwarz

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #47 on: September 25, 2008, 06:46:11 AM »
The note actually might have been in the Sek Kai book.

The Gutenberg Revolution are movable letters, printing was done way before Gutenberg in the real world, but you had to create every single page from scratch.

With the movable letters you just rearrange then , so you can do prints with lower numbers.

Examples: Flyer: join the army, one page for all members in the country, doable with the old press

Book of Math: 200 Pages each and everyone has to be created from scratch, with every single character and every single formulae, perhaps 200 copies for the entire coutry - unpayable.


Here in Germany the courses at University are called Vorlesung, because in times past a professor did just that: read from a book and the students wrote that down to study it later. thats the way science books have been copied before the movable letter press.

Offline cedher

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 129
  • OIC Points +0/-0
    • Jaiman SourceWeb
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #48 on: September 25, 2008, 07:45:20 AM »
Copied from Eidolon:

The term ?book? used throughout is meant to include any written manuscript. The movable-type printing press has yet to be developed (though there are a few prototypes in N?mar-Tol) and most manuscripts are hand-copied onto vellum, parchment, papyrus or similar material. While many of these are bound with covers like a book, many exist as rolled scrolls, or even loose sheets between pieces of wood.

Offline dutch206

  • Revered Elder
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,019
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #49 on: September 25, 2008, 07:58:23 AM »
Well, one reason so little is known of the Library of Alexandria is that it was destroyed well over a millennium ago; possibly two millennia ago; most likely over one and a half millennia ago.

History geek, here:  The Library of Alexandria was burned to the ground by Octavian, the nephew of Ceasar.
"Cthulhu is the bacon of gaming." -John Kovalic, author of "Dork Tower"

Offline Terry K. Amthor

  • Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,976
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Great Book
    • Eidolon Studio
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #50 on: September 25, 2008, 08:05:51 AM »
A semi-related note, something I found interesting in a BBC show about Shakespeare. He would pass out manuscripts to the actors, but only with their lines on them, so no actor would even know what the others were saying till they rehearsed. Shakespeare kept the only 'master' because otherwise one of the actors could take it to a publisher, get the thing printed and sell it, because no copyright laws existed back then.
Terry K. Amthor
Shadow World Author, Rolemaster & SpaceMaster Co-Designer, ICE co-founder.
Eidolon Studio Art Director


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
-- Clarke's First Law.

Offline Cormac Doyle

  • Sage
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,594
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • RMC Team
    • The Aecyr Grene Campaign Setting
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #51 on: September 25, 2008, 10:07:14 AM »
... because no copyright laws existed back then.

Not quite.

The first recorded case of a public prosecution (at least in western europe) relating to copyright infringement was in Ireland in 563AD. Columcille (now known as St. Columcille ... pronounced Colum-kill - called "Columba" or St. Columba by the Scots) was one of the principal scribes/illustrators for the "Book of Durrow"(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Durrow) and "Book of Kells" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Kells) - two of the most beautiful illustrated bibles dating from the early monastic period in Western Europe. While he was involved in working on the second book (Book of Kells), the monastery in Durrow accused him of Intellectual Property Theft ... and brought him before the highest court in the land.

Columcille was exiled to the Island of Iona (off the coast of Scotland) where he established another monastic community ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Columba
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iona

Offline markc

  • Elder Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 10,697
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2008, 02:04:46 PM »
Note: I do not know SW that well at all.

Talking about the printing press are there not any magical means to copy material?

MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline dutch206

  • Revered Elder
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,019
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2008, 03:01:03 PM »
Note: I do not know SW that well at all.

Talking about the printing press are there not any magical means to copy material?

MDC

Summon a demon and cast a control spell on it?
"Cthulhu is the bacon of gaming." -John Kovalic, author of "Dork Tower"

Offline egdcltd

  • Revered Elder
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,302
  • OIC Points +70/-70
    • Azukail Games
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2008, 03:18:07 PM »
Note: I do not know SW that well at all.

Talking about the printing press are there not any magical means to copy material?

MDC

Summon a demon and cast a control spell on it?

There are probably means of doing it, but not easily. Mass producing hundreds of books, each with hundreds of pages, would probably take a lot of time, money and effort, in comparison to how easily a movable type press would do it.
I made some things! Azukail Games

Offline Terry K. Amthor

  • Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,976
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Great Book
    • Eidolon Studio
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2008, 04:48:16 PM »
... because no copyright laws existed back then.

Well! They lied to me, or I misunderstood them then. They did clearly say that he split up the manuscript so that the actors couldn't steal it and print it and him not get credit or payment, and they implied that it wasn't just Shakespeare being paranoid, but it was a common practice.

Not quite.

The first recorded case of a public prosecution (at least in western europe) relating to copyright infringement was in Ireland in 563AD. Columcille (now known as St. Columcille ... pronounced Colum-kill - called "Columba" or St. Columba by the Scots) was one of the principal scribes/illustrators for the "Book of Durrow"(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Durrow) and "Book of Kells" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Kells) - two of the most beautiful illustrated bibles dating from the early monastic period in Western Europe. While he was involved in working on the second book (Book of Kells), the monastery in Durrow accused him of Intellectual Property Theft ... and brought him before the highest court in the land.

Columcille was exiled to the Island of Iona (off the coast of Scotland) where he established another monastic community ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Columba
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iona
Terry K. Amthor
Shadow World Author, Rolemaster & SpaceMaster Co-Designer, ICE co-founder.
Eidolon Studio Art Director


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
-- Clarke's First Law.

Offline markc

  • Elder Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 10,697
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #56 on: September 25, 2008, 05:13:23 PM »
Note: I do not know SW that well at all.

Talking about the printing press are there not any magical means to copy material?

MDC

Summon a demon and cast a control spell on it?

There are probably means of doing it, but not easily. Mass producing hundreds of books, each with hundreds of pages, would probably take a lot of time, money and effort, in comparison to how easily a movable type press would do it.

 The reason I ask is that I remember a spell list from the RMSS Essence Companion. I was wrong it is in the Magent base list for RMSS on page 187 the Gathering Secrets base list. The first spell is copy1, and there are higher level spells that allow for faster copying.

MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline vroomfogle

  • Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,670
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #57 on: September 25, 2008, 08:21:41 PM »
Sure a Magent could do it, or as a GM you could come up with Open lists to also do copying, but most spell users will have better things to do then sit around and cast spells to copy texts.  Some may be copied that way but the old tried and trued method of grunts copying by hand is probably much cheaper and reliable.

Plus there's the Scribes Union to contend with ;-)

Offline Elrik

  • Seeker of Wisdom
  • **
  • Posts: 273
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #58 on: September 26, 2008, 09:27:47 AM »
I think that falls into the realm of "make our own". I think a number of spell lists are focuses or specialized. Those are the areas were we the GM shine. I have a house keeping spell list somewhere in that mess I call a filing system.
This is created on the fly... This would be an open list or even a Scribe list.

Copy List
1) create ink (needs ingredients)
2) create quill/pen (needs feather/wood/small metal tip)
3) ready paper (cleans and removes any oils or residue)
4) Create copyright notice
5) Copy Text (this is a real time process, spell caster must be reading the book)
6) Bind (creates a simple binding - needs glue, string or metal thread)
7)
8) Xerox(tm) (As spell 5, only as many copies as casters levels may be copied.)
9)
10) Copy by Touch minor (scroll that are touched can be readied for coping in conjunction with 5 or 7)
11)
12)
13) Copy by Touch med. (small books, up to 250 pages that are touched can be readied for coping in conjunction with 5 or 7)
14)
15)
16) Copy by Touch Large (Larger books, up to 1000 that are touched can be readied for coping in conjunction with 5 or 7)
17)
18) Indestructible (Makes paper nearly indestructible - dragon fire, large volcano and the like will destroy paper.)
19)
20) Lord Copy (All spells can be used at no extra cost, unlimited number of pages can be copied)
I'm told it's my duty to fight against the law
That wizardry's my trade and I was born to wade through gore
I just want to be a lover, not a red-eyed screaming ghoul
I wish it'd picked another to be it's killing tool

Offline Elrik

  • Seeker of Wisdom
  • **
  • Posts: 273
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: What do people Know
« Reply #59 on: September 26, 2008, 09:48:21 AM »
As for the ink press...

I remember... and thats 25 years ago... dear lords!!! Old guy comment coming!!!

I remember hearing a story that the people using the old style presses, would use trays to place their letters. They would have several alphabets and multiples of each letter. So if they had a 30 page book, they would do as many trays as they could manage then as they printed off a page, create a new page and then so on till the book was done.

Might I also add that you don't need to read to copy a page down. Just match up the symbols and the printer would quickly read the tray to ensure everything was correct. With that method I think you could get through things pretty fast.


 
I'm told it's my duty to fight against the law
That wizardry's my trade and I was born to wade through gore
I just want to be a lover, not a red-eyed screaming ghoul
I wish it'd picked another to be it's killing tool