Author Topic: What do people Know  (Read 10330 times)

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Offline TomOBedlam

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2008, 03:19:44 PM »
Cay has a problem with Homosexuals? or is that an example? If that is the case I have a play that will have change professions, or at least gods.

Yup. According to Cay, the god of sweaty men wrestling, homosexuality is a sin.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

Offline Elrik

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2008, 03:24:11 PM »
Wow, that may take me a while to wrap a towel around my sweaty head...


What book dood? I never thought I would see a Lord of Orhan become a Redneck hick with sexual issues...
I'm told it's my duty to fight against the law
That wizardry's my trade and I was born to wade through gore
I just want to be a lover, not a red-eyed screaming ghoul
I wish it'd picked another to be it's killing tool

Offline TomOBedlam

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2008, 03:42:09 PM »
I'm sure I've read it elsewhere as well, but in the Grand campaign, the description of Raek has:
"Also, the degree of acceptance varies depending on
the prevailing deity. Among the Lords of Orhan: Kuor:
disapproval; Valris: neutral; Reann: neutral; Jaysek &
Kieron: acceptance (and indulgence, esp. by Kieron);
Eissa: neutral; Phaon: disapproval; Oriana: mild disapproval; Cay:
strong disapproval; Iloura: indignant distaste (it is ?unnatural?);
Iorak: no opinion; Teris: complete acceptance."
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

Offline Elrik

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2008, 12:31:51 AM »
Iloura is disagreeing as it is unnatural??? But there are animals that partake in same sex activities all the time!? For fun no less.... I think I have to change that up in my game..

Thanks for the heads up!
I'm told it's my duty to fight against the law
That wizardry's my trade and I was born to wade through gore
I just want to be a lover, not a red-eyed screaming ghoul
I wish it'd picked another to be it's killing tool

Offline RandalThor

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2008, 11:33:36 PM »
I'm sure I've read it elsewhere as well, but in the Grand campaign,

Could someone please change the file type on the Grand Campaign because no matter what I do I cannot get a file to open it!!!!!!!!!

PS: Acrobat would be great.
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Scratch that. Power attracts the corruptible.

Rules should not replace the brain and thinking.

Offline Walt

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2008, 12:40:53 AM »
Cay has a problem with Homosexuals? or is that an example? If that is the case I have a play that will have change professions, or at least gods.

Yup. According to Cay, the god of sweaty men wrestling, homosexuality is a sin.

Fitting for the Church of Orhan in Rhakhaan. But on top on this you could imagine a side branch, some secret sect internally, originating out of a time where homosexuality in the church od Orhan wasn?t a sin, secretly claiming that they are the real priests of Cay!

Offline egdcltd

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2008, 03:34:16 AM »
Could someone please change the file type on the Grand Campaign because no matter what I do I cannot get a file to open it!!!!!!!!!

PS: Acrobat would be great.

There are pdf versions here: http://www.pvv.org/~bcd/shadowworld/grandcampaign/index.html
I made some things! Azukail Games

Offline Elrik

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2008, 12:05:49 PM »
Nice egdcltd!

What file format do you have RandalThor?????

Cay no like Homosexuals... hehehehehhehehe That is too funny... Thank the Gods that the Gods don't write that crap down!

Stupid monkeys and our sexual fears.
I'm told it's my duty to fight against the law
That wizardry's my trade and I was born to wade through gore
I just want to be a lover, not a red-eyed screaming ghoul
I wish it'd picked another to be it's killing tool

Offline RandalThor

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2008, 07:11:18 PM »
Thank you, the non-spanish pdf was great. I think the problem was that on Terry's website it is compressed using Stuffit and I do not have nor would I like to have to purchase that program....
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Scratch that. Power attracts the corruptible.

Rules should not replace the brain and thinking.

Offline Elrik

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2008, 09:08:07 PM »
If you guys run into a problem with Stuffit files, let me know. My artist uses Mac =-)

Glad it worked out!

I'm told it's my duty to fight against the law
That wizardry's my trade and I was born to wade through gore
I just want to be a lover, not a red-eyed screaming ghoul
I wish it'd picked another to be it's killing tool

Offline Elrik

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2008, 11:34:39 PM »
" Six Crowns and their accompanying items. They were made long ago in the Second Era of Ire by the great artificer Tethior, with the help of another? who is not named." - Chapter 18 of Terry's story.

This makes sense. I don't think Andraxx is a household name (which I think we all agree). I think Andraxx is High Knowledge. Special Agents like Loremasters, Spy Masters and people that function in the shadows. Powerful lords and nobles that need to know are somewhat aware of him. Leaders of Ancient orders are aware of him as well.

So unless your characters or my characters need to know about him they don't know about him. It was theorized that Andraxx could be considered an ancient God or Demi God. Possibly an ancient Hero.

So that solves a big issue for me. I have slowly started to categorize Information As High, Med, Low. Some elements of information can cross all levels but secrets stay secrets.

I would say that if you take a History (Jaiman) you would have to cover the Crowns and their support items. You would learn about Tethior. You may even come across the Andraxx name, but I would say you are above Rank 10, maybe even Rank 15.

If you did History (Tehior) you would have to get through his body of work, for example, why does Tehior like making weapons smarter then their users... But I think Andraxx would be along the line of 7 to 10.

If you took History (Mythical Figures) I think he would be rank 5 to 7. That is a pretty focused skill.

I think this sort of thing will be my control.

So if a player takes Religion (Orhan) would Andraxx come up? If the character had History Nomikos or Loremasters or Althans... would Andraxx come up??? Nomikos, No. Loremasters, No. Althans, Yes. But the last would be a difficult research project. You would also have to do a great deal of research to even realize what an Althan is. 

More thinking!

=-)
I'm told it's my duty to fight against the law
That wizardry's my trade and I was born to wade through gore
I just want to be a lover, not a red-eyed screaming ghoul
I wish it'd picked another to be it's killing tool

Offline cdcooley

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2008, 02:54:12 AM »
If the character had History Nomikos or Loremasters or Althans... would Andraxx come up??? Nomikos, No. Loremasters, No. Althans, Yes. But the last would be a difficult research project. You would also have to do a great deal of research to even realize what an Althan is. 

I think you have that a little backwards.  Terry has explicitly noted that only a handful of people actually know his true race.  I wouldn't rank some basic knowledge of Andraax as too obscure but what little is "known" would be myth and ancient history.  On the other hand, I would think that history of Nomikos, Loremasters, or Althans would all be highly unusual skills. Althans would be known as the mythical Lords of Essence and you would find absolutely no reference to Andraax there.  You might find a reference to Daenku but connecting him to Andraax would be virtually impossible unless you meet him in person and ask nicely.

Basic information about Andraax, the Elven Sage from the early Second Era, would be much easier to find.  There's a giant statue at Nomikos so you could easily learn about his role as the founder from anyone who had actually been to the Library. The Scribes would also probably tell you he was one of the three founders of the Loremaster order.  On the other hand, I doubt that very many people even bother to ask about the statue.  And of course the Scribes would also freely tell you about the "fact" that he was buried long ago.  I'm sure that if you asked about the six fingers on the statue you'd get some comment about "imaginative artists" or some other way to dismiss the quirk.

The Loremasters might mention his name as one of the three Founders, but of course, their history shows quite clearly that the Order was founded by "three Elven Sages".  And the one remaining Founder, Kirin, still heads the Council.  For centuries even the Loremaster's didn't know if Andraax was still alive.

Andraax is a figure of myth and legend from the early period of the Second Era.  Very few people would even stop to consider that he might have been active in the middle of the Second Era much less still live in the Third.

If you delve more deeply you might find an account of him showing up at the Wars of Dominion, but in that case people would probably assume that he died in that conflict.  After all he hasn't done anything "public" in the entire Third Era.

Offline mocking bird

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2008, 08:28:09 AM »
The gods have agendas of their own.

Priests have a tendency to also have agendas of their own.

I would say that having active gods and information spells makes things worse, not better.

This is true, it depends on 'how active' the gods indeed are.  The exception would be if you have each church have an orthodox dogma that each individual priest adheres to without exception or variance.  For example each temple across the Jaiman would be exactly the same.  This might occur if the deity in question has a vested interest, literally, in each channeler having the exact same belief system so having priests/clerics would indeed be a rarity.  Cultural variances would seem to make this improbable.

However if informational spells, like detect evil, gave different results if the caster and the channeled deity had different opinions on the nature of evil than the caster apparently isn't a very good channeler or that the spells become pointless as the GM has to channel the deity in question to find out how it would react to the situation and which might not be what the character intended.
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.    Buddha

Offline TomOBedlam

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2008, 10:25:46 AM »
The gods have agendas of their own.

Priests have a tendency to also have agendas of their own.

I would say that having active gods and information spells makes things worse, not better.

However if informational spells, like detect evil, gave different results if the caster and the channeled deity had different opinions on the nature of evil than the caster apparently isn't a very good channeler or that the spells become pointless as the GM has to channel the deity in question to find out how it would react to the situation and which might not be what the character intended.

Ah, forgive me if I was unclear. The "Detect Evil" spell would reflect the opinions of the diety. What the Channeler would _say_ that the result was is up to the channeler in question.

And what happens with dieties that have different aspects? Does information spells reflect the aspect, or the "original"? Does this mean that all the minor cults could solve their religious infighting by asking their god "Is our interpretation the correct one or theirs?" (That would be boring, wouldn't it?) Or would both groups get "Yours" from the aspect?
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

Offline Elrik

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2008, 10:53:40 AM »
Thanks cdcooley - all excellent points!

"Terry has explicitly noted that only a handful of people actually know his true race."

Just because Terry says so, doesn't always mean I bide by it.

I will agree that researching Andraxx would be a practise in futility. I suspect that many of the books that have any information about him are locked away from prying eyes. I don't think I have it backwards. I just don't think I explained it as well as I could have.

All of the skills I mention in my above post would be practised by higher level characters. It would be the rare first level PC that understood the importance of this skill set. Again, would the low level PC care? Not really. Low level Pcs should be focusing on skills that help them survive.

I didn't mean to imply basic information. I meant a name. The name comes up when you look into something. I didn't intend for his family, favourite colour or preferred ice cream. If  Daenku came up I suspect it would be in relation to a mysterious body of beings, and that would be a rare find.

Also keep in mind there are other methods to collect information. Spells are just the beginning. Summon up creatures from other realities is also just the start. You may not know Andraxx but something will.

Then again, Andraxx is not really my concern as a GM. I have never used him in any of my games. I simply wanted to use him as a control to my developing idea.

In my mind Andraxx and the Lords of Orhan are at the top of the list for ?Increadably hard to find? information. Once I got that worked out I have mental let information tumble down like a coin organizer.

My players are more interested in Tethior and his brother, and other famous smiths. They are interested in ancient hiding places and location of the Iceblade and it's brothers. But they screwed that up by becoming outlaws.  
I'm told it's my duty to fight against the law
That wizardry's my trade and I was born to wade through gore
I just want to be a lover, not a red-eyed screaming ghoul
I wish it'd picked another to be it's killing tool

Offline Elrik

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2008, 11:21:26 AM »
OOohhh Tom that is deliciously cruel!

I would think the gods are happy that you hold to their edicts. No matter how twisted. By saying yes or know they would alienate so many.

The other things is that I believe that the Lords of Orhan have similar views on Evil and Good.

I would like to think that the Gods are not so ego centric that they derive a childish pleasure by holding to the ideals of Good and Evil. Like to the Lords of Charon get together facing the Planet, screaming "We are Evil!", while flexing their muscles? Lords I hope not. This is not high school where some jerk sits in a the back row telling his buddies how evil he is. Then giggles like a total prat... Orhan I couldn't stand him... errrr

I often think that as GMs we have to be a bit more absolute then the players. We have to define what we think is good and evil. Just because a group of cultists doesn't see themselves as evil doesn't mean your PCs God doesn't.

I also often think that the spell don't fit the Game world =-)




I'm told it's my duty to fight against the law
That wizardry's my trade and I was born to wade through gore
I just want to be a lover, not a red-eyed screaming ghoul
I wish it'd picked another to be it's killing tool

Offline mocking bird

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2008, 01:28:18 PM »
Ah, forgive me if I was unclear. The "Detect Evil" spell would reflect the opinions of the diety. What the Channeler would _say_ that the result was is up to the channeler in question.

Ah - thanks for the pointed on the source material.  I might add I got the GC in pdf form originally from somewhere some time ago.

However I would disagree on your interpretation in making the jump from 'strong disapproval' to 'evil' as that opens up a whole can of worms in a lot of areas not to mention making the detect evil incredibly vague as it would encompass a huge amount of evil things.  For example every person in the military could show up as evil if they killed someone in a war.
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.    Buddha

Offline dutch206

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2008, 04:24:06 PM »
Using "corruption points" makes the whole 'detect evil' thing so easy to deal with.  When you hit 100 cp's, you glow like you were on fire.
"Cthulhu is the bacon of gaming." -John Kovalic, author of "Dork Tower"

Offline metallion

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2008, 04:33:27 PM »
Consider how little is known about Demetrius Phalereus, the founder of the Library of Alexandra.  Now consider that the Library of Alexandra was founded a mere 2300 years ago, not the 12000 years since the founding of Nomikos.

Offline DonMoody

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Re: What do people Know
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2008, 04:53:44 PM »
Well, one reason so little is known of the Library of Alexandria is that it was destroyed well over a millennium ago; possibly two millennia ago; most likely over one and a half millennia ago.
And Earth (unlike Kulthea) has no openly immortal beings (and in, relatively, large numbers).

Similarly, the life span of the Library was only a couple of centuries.

Did Nomikos have such events in its past?

DonMoody
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 06:07:57 PM by DonMoody »