Author Topic: Every Zelot needs a good whipping  (Read 5090 times)

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Offline TomOBedlam

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Re: Every Zelot needs a good whipping
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2008, 04:15:09 AM »
In my view of the world, city guards are more "normal".
If the players start at level 1, a small city have guards that are around level 3, a captain that is level 5 to 7 or so. A bigger city will have multiple level 5-7s, and one level 10 or so. I dont see really high level guards running around.

As for magical equipment - Not really. Look at the prices for magical items. Why rob a bank when a normal city guard carries stuff that is worth 1000s of gold? I would let bigger cities have a limited supply of kregora items (needles would be my preference. Tie the magic user up, stick a kregora needle under his skin on his back and he should be pacified).

Characters should be trained at a low level that you dont mess with the law.

Even in a fantasy world, it does not make sense to have artifacts carried around by people that make coppers per day, or to have level 20 fighters working as a normal guard. Just does not make sense. If I had players that would slaughter an entire village or all the guards in a town or so, I would throw a crack team of specialists from the church, government and magic users academies at them. The government clearly cant allow people to hurt their officials, the church wants the law to work (And if anyone had any channeling PP before they started killing guards, they would have none after). The magic users academies really dont want people seeing all magic users as uncontrollable marauders (that way lies pitchforks, drownings and burning towers).

Basically, if they did a wanton "I'm so high level, I can kill a town", I would kill them off. Massive overpower. If they are 4 characters level 9 I would send 10 level 20 characters with an entourage of 20-30 level 10s as support. Until they learn. And it's the realistic thing to do. Too many people have too much to lose by having PCs killing off villages.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

Offline mathhatt

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Re: Every Zelot needs a good whipping
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2008, 06:32:49 AM »
In my view of the world, city guards are more "normal".
If the players start at level 1, a small city have guards that are around level 3, a captain that is level 5 to 7 or so. A bigger city will have multiple level 5-7s, and one level 10 or so. I dont see really high level guards running around.

As for magical equipment - Not really. Look at the prices for magical items. Why rob a bank when a normal city guard carries stuff that is worth 1000s of gold? I would let bigger cities have a limited supply of kregora items (needles would be my preference. Tie the magic user up, stick a kregora needle under his skin on his back and he should be pacified).

Characters should be trained at a low level that you dont mess with the law.

Even in a fantasy world, it does not make sense to have artifacts carried around by people that make coppers per day, or to have level 20 fighters working as a normal guard. Just does not make sense. If I had players that would slaughter an entire village or all the guards in a town or so, I would throw a crack team of specialists from the church, government and magic users academies at them. The government clearly cant allow people to hurt their officials, the church wants the law to work (And if anyone had any channeling PP before they started killing guards, they would have none after). The magic users academies really dont want people seeing all magic users as uncontrollable marauders (that way lies pitchforks, drownings and burning towers).

Basically, if they did a wanton "I'm so high level, I can kill a town", I would kill them off. Massive overpower. If they are 4 characters level 9 I would send 10 level 20 characters with an entourage of 20-30 level 10s as support. Until they learn. And it's the realistic thing to do. Too many people have too much to lose by having PCs killing off villages.

I agree.
"The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it."
-- Galadriel, The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring. --

Offline Elrik

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Re: Every Zelot needs a good whipping
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2008, 08:43:10 AM »
Good points TomOBedlam.

I was talking to my wife, a medical professional no less, and she says Drugs. There are common enough drugs that cause sleep, paralysis or even a flash bomb. At that point I am thinking "Why didn't I think of that!"

I have yet to see what is out there, but ever community has a herbalist. Usually large communities and small ones will have a herbalist on the payroll somewhere. Take that alchemist, also on the payroll and you can make flash bombs with the herbal concoction. All you have to do is train the soldiers (not all or maybe all if you are a small enough community) and you have a small army with a rather inexpensive payload devise and chemical weapons.

Choking powders, strong sleep agents, pepper spray sort of attack, etc.

I think a lot of us think in Terms of One offs. We hire an Alchemist, pay him to do a huge work order and suffer the drain on our accounts. Well I don't always think that cities would pay the powerful alchemist when they can hire a younger one looking to make a name for himself. On top of that cities do the same damn thing that my boss does "Hey Elrik, I have a friend that needs a network setup. Tomorrow, just head over there." I don't make extra money (grrrrrr) and my boss gets a happy buddy. Same for the herbalist.

In short, you get a decent alchemist and herbalist, put them on the payroll and give them things to do. I have done in several games as it was easier to get someone on my work sheet then to have to bring in someone special every time I needed something small done.

Even if you buy an expensive herb, you can mix the chemicals or even package them in such a way that once it is thrown, you get several smaller reactions. Maximize the effect by putting smaller doses of chemicals in the flash bombs.

I also don't think it should be super expensive. For the herbalist, you give her/him some land and tell them to plant what they can. Use what you have on hand to the best of your ability and move on. If you need to buy some super expensive herbs then do them in small quantities.

I think it is pretty easy to train a guard to throw a bomb in the right direction. "Just get it near them."

If need be, boil down some vinegar, put it in a glass jar and throw. If you have it, add some local hot spice to the mix. No matter what level you are, that has to burn the eyes.

That leads to other issues. What sort of RR does a PC get VS. a bomb attack like that. Unless you are superman it will burn and probably give guards a few moments to deal with you without interruptions. In the past I have denied PC's saves because I thought it was ridiculous.
 

Thanks for being involved guys!



I'm told it's my duty to fight against the law
That wizardry's my trade and I was born to wade through gore
I just want to be a lover, not a red-eyed screaming ghoul
I wish it'd picked another to be it's killing tool

Offline TomOBedlam

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Re: Every Zelot needs a good whipping
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2008, 09:22:40 AM »
Everything you let the city guard have you must consider the PCs will have, armies will use and in the end random bad guys will have. Thats why I prefer the "no special cases" policy
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

Offline Elrik

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Re: Every Zelot needs a good whipping
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2008, 10:26:49 AM »
I think in the end we are discussing the "after the big boom" theory, instead of the pre-strike.

It isn't very economical to presume that everyone is out to dominate your city. BUT, it is nice to have a back up plan, or eight.
I'm told it's my duty to fight against the law
That wizardry's my trade and I was born to wade through gore
I just want to be a lover, not a red-eyed screaming ghoul
I wish it'd picked another to be it's killing tool

Offline cedher

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Re: Every Zelot needs a good whipping
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2008, 04:47:25 AM »
Some thoughts about how normal guards would handle too dangerous opponents.

First of all, gang up on them, if each PC gets say 5-6 opponents, they will have enough bonus to actually do some damage. Second, bows and crossbows can take down even the toughest.
Another thing is to handle them like you would any dangerous animal or monster. Long spears so they can't get close to you, nets, even really good PC's cant fight with a weighted net over their head.

For some smaller village they probably don't have this option, in many cases all they can do is hide while the village is being terrorized and people slaughtered.
But the village is most likely part of some greater county/country/empire where they don't like having their villagers murdered by bandits and some sheriff/hero/nobleman will gather up a posse and hunt the evildoers to the end of the world, and that posse will most likely contain people capable of handling the PC's, probably both magicians and adventurers of varying levels.
And if the posse does not work the next step would be to use the army, so then the PCs can go out in glory facing down a few centuries of Rhakhaan legionaries.

To sum up, only thing to handle this kind of D&D playing (which does not belong in serious campaigns) it to make the law swift and brutal (and if it can't be swift, make it extra brutal). Some players will never accept things like this and may even quit, but I would never worry about that.

Offline cedher

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Re: Every Zelot needs a good whipping
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2008, 04:53:52 AM »
On a side note. I currently run a city based campaign in Haalkitaine, where the characters are now more then capable to handle most of the guards, but they still are as terrified of the city guard as when they were level one and if confronted by them they either run or surrender, they would not even think the idea of putting up a fight against them.

This is mostly for the fact that they are very good and experienced role players (not D&D snotlings) but also because they know it would get 10 times worse if they were putting up a fight and that they would never get away with it.

Offline TomOBedlam

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Re: Every Zelot needs a good whipping
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2008, 05:20:52 AM »
On a side note. I currently run a city based campaign in Haalkitaine, where the characters are now more then capable to handle most of the guards, but they still are as terrified of the city guard as when they were level one and if confronted by them they either run or surrender, they would not even think the idea of putting up a fight against them.

Some of us have a discount for "Emergency cleansing" at a local brothel/bath house. We've been running donw those sewers more times than most white aligators
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

Offline metallion

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Re: Every Zelot needs a good whipping
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2008, 10:03:51 AM »
Imagine the party's dismay when they come to the next town.  Word of your might has spread.  No city watch can stand against you.  Your wizard's magics shames even the Duke's army.  All the land trembles at your footsteps and weeps in your wake.

Sound familiar?  If you're an adventurer, it really, really should.  Becuase killing people like you are how people like you make a living.

You guessed it:  The king's put a very large bounty on your heads, and every other adventurer within five hundred miles is now gunning for you.  And they're pissed, because you're making them all look bad.

Offline Elrik

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Re: Every Zelot needs a good whipping
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2008, 11:42:48 AM »
I just did that to one of my Players. A noble swoops in and verbally decimates the party. He just plasters them. He is fast and smart, well educated and has then figured out. He destroys what they think they have: "one of our members is a squire - so there!", by laughing. Really, what is a squire to a Noble?

In the end the Ranger of the party tries to arrow the guy, roles sweet and actually hurts the noble. Now the party is wanted for attempted murder, theft of nobles property and break and enter of Noble property. The Paladin and cleric surrendered, the Mage was drugged and will be returned to the noble that "owns" her.

The Erlin/Dyar fighter cut him self a path thought the guards and the Ranger got some distance and helped to kill the soldiers. Then they bolted.

The game was going great till the players ego got in the way. I will probably just kill them and start over. Really, Assault against a noble is death. Also the Noble did this for a reason. The players where getting close to a cult that he helps administrate.

Stupid players.
I'm told it's my duty to fight against the law
That wizardry's my trade and I was born to wade through gore
I just want to be a lover, not a red-eyed screaming ghoul
I wish it'd picked another to be it's killing tool

Offline Elrik

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Re: Every Zelot needs a good whipping
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2008, 11:43:19 AM »

I just did that to one of my Players. A noble swoops in and verbally decimates the party. He just plasters them. He is fast and smart, well educated and has them figured out. He destroys what they think they have: "one of our members is a squire - so there!", by laughing. Really, what is a squire to a Noble?

In the end the Ranger of the party tries to arrow the guy, roles sweet and actually hurts the noble. Now the party is wanted for attempted murder, theft of nobles property and break and enter of Noble property. The Paladin and cleric surrendered, the Mage was drugged and will be returned to the noble that "owns" her.

The Erlin/Dyar fighter cut him self a path thought the guards and the Ranger got some distance and helped to kill the soldiers. Then they bolted.

The game was going great till the players ego got in the way. I will probably just kill them and start over. Really, Assault against a noble is death. Also the Noble did this for a reason. The players where getting close to a cult that he helps administrate.

Stupid players.
I'm told it's my duty to fight against the law
That wizardry's my trade and I was born to wade through gore
I just want to be a lover, not a red-eyed screaming ghoul
I wish it'd picked another to be it's killing tool

Offline Elrik

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Re: Every Zelot needs a good whipping
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2008, 11:44:56 AM »
Sorry... double post....
I'm told it's my duty to fight against the law
That wizardry's my trade and I was born to wade through gore
I just want to be a lover, not a red-eyed screaming ghoul
I wish it'd picked another to be it's killing tool