Topic: Every Zelot needs a good whipping

[Elrik]

My party is walking through the massive grounds of Esov Turic, there are thousands of pilgrims milling around the grounds all waiting their turn at being blessed, nearly drowned, flayed or whipped.

My players see this, they are totally unsure what they are looking at. Before their eyes is a circle of six 'royal' guards whipping a small group of (about 12) pilgrims. Blood is everywhere and flesh is hanging off their backs. It is a gruesome sight. My Party, having no idea of the human practise of flaying for their Gawd, step up and question the guards. The guards, startled as they having never been questioned tell the party to move along and mind their own business. The Fighter gets a bit belligerent and he and the Sergent start throwing punches. The PC is in the 90s for Martial arts strikes and easily manages the Sergent. The guards stop whipping and circle the party. The Sergent expels the rest of the Party and the Fighter is arrested and charged with; Interference, assault against a Royal guard, violence on Sacred Grounds (all my players freaked at the final charge.)

The Priest in charge of the grounds decides 20 lashes will be the punishment. The Sergent gets to administer the punishment. Dawn arrives and the priest that is appointed to watch the punishment is no where to be seen. The Sergent decides to add a bit of "reality" to the punishment; a chunk of a broken Elf slaying weapon. 20 lashes turns into 25 then to 30 and finally 40. The fighter is nearly dead.

The party, luckily heard a group of children telling their parents of the bloody elf that was dumped out one of the side doors. The NPC Cleric, belonging to a different group then the Church of Orhan, barely keeps him alive.

After the game I got questioned about it. The one Player I have with well over 10 years gaming experience was a bit indignant, as he exclaims "That has never happened in one of my games! Are you sure that is what would have happened?", my other player (the poor victim) couldn't believe that I did it.

From the beginning I have been telling the PC's that there are Laws in Rhakhaan, you break them and you suffer. Murder someone in a bar and you will be charged with murder! Kill a snotty noble because they dared to look down upon your PC mightiness, you might as well expect to be executed on the spot.

I have even retrained a number of players who have the D&D habit of no law, unless mentioned in the module, or they just kill guards till the city runs out... I love that one! Still they

Just to let you know, the NPC's agreed with me.

Anyone else having this problem... head shaker... like seriously, this may be an escape from the day to day humdrums but still, you draw your sword in the middle of a city and kill people, expect the Law to throw the entire book at you, and as is stated, the law is swift in Rhakhaan.

Enough whining - must beat pell!!!

[Dax]

...
Murder someone in a bar and you will be charged with murder! Kill a snotty noble because they dared to look down upon your PC mightiness, you might as well expect to be executed on the spot.

I even thought of drawing a weapon is attempted murder (specially in a system like RM).
But in other systems (like the one we are playing) the PCs may always state: "A single attack doesn't kill anyone ..."

I like your approach and still want to do the same,
but I weren't the GM for a very long time.
But next time ... (thanks for the inspiration).

[jeff]

I really like what you did to. I like a rich and realistic world and it seems you do also. Elirk keep the examples coming. HAHA. Its fun getting ideas from other GM's on how to terrorize the players.

[Fornitus]

 Howabout interfering with the salvation of the pilgrims souls?
Thats why they get whipped, so one more charge.

[Elrik]

Thanks guys.

I have nearly 30 years of bitter experiences to tame the wild enthusiasm of gaming... =-)

Dax, I have heard that one before. If only Kingdom's based common law on the Rule expectations of players. It happens especially when I  run a game of Palladium, I have some older players that whimper. "That's not fair!"

My most extreme case to date...
Older player, at least older then me by 3 or 4 years, but only been playing since University, say about 19. He had a full time job, but I got the impression he had never had date, ever!
So we are in Sel Kay, he is playing a 9th level Fighter. He gets into a bar room brawl, as was his habit, (D&D much?). When the law broke up the fight, his knife was found in a smaller mans stomach. As the party had done some favours for the watch the Sergent in charge quietly says, "Just pay for his healing and we will let this go. Avoid this bar for a few weeks." I thought that was pretty reasonable.

He follows the Sergent around, kills him and sneaks home and rapes the now dead man's wife. The clerics "speak with dead" and find out who did it. The woman also recognizes her raper.

The Player is charged with (I still have the notes in a box);
Murder,
Killing of a Princes Watcher,
Stalking with Intent to Murder,
Rape,
Forceable Confinement,
Sins against Orhan,
Breaking and Entry,
Caring a Concealed weapon,

Some of the charges where trumped up, but in the end the player is publicly whipped, Publicly castrated, Beheaded. His body is dragged through the streets while his head sits atop a pike at the entrance to the Hall of Justice, as a warning of what happens to those that the Kill the Prince's watch.

The Player never forgave me. Till he gamed with me he only played D&D. His GM, also my age never played the "Law" angle as they called it.

He quite playing with us shortly after that.

Kingdom's are built on Law. It may seem a corrupt, even sheltering to those in power, it is still law. Just because you are a strange does not make you exempt to laws. Ignorance is a crime against common sense, when you kill someone, there will be repercussions, be they mortal or divine. For example.

Priest of Orhan decides that his followers are not honest enough. He sets in a series of Laws that strip people of their freedom of movement and they are only allowed to congregate at church. Ever try to make a quilt by yourself? Or dig a well, or even build a barn with an army of one?

Eventually the community just ignored the law. They didn't even understand why there was a law like this existed. Well until they started to congregate again, then they discovered people where missing, or young people had been tortured and a few murdered.

The villagers sent a letter to the Religious head in the Capital. Nothing came of it. Months passed, people disappeared, and a cloud of desperation floated through every home and life. The taint of moral rot filled the nostrils of everyone.  

Then the five strangers showed up, started asking questions. Eventually the thugs that strengthened the Priests position confronted the unwanted visitors. As nasty fight broke out in the streets, the thugs, having no formal training were soon cut down.

The priest turned out to be a different beast all together. The party struggled over several days to destroy him. They used raiding tactics, hitting the temple in the early morning, mid day and late night. It was a never ending battle, confrontation with zombies, ghouls, eventually the Vampire that was the true power behind the entire ordeal. Sadly, the priest was part of the deal. He found the vampire, imprisoned in the catacombs, freed the creature and eventually became it's partner. Orhan was no longer His master.

Eventually the party won the battle, the villagers mostly moving on to new communities, the undead masters lost their resources to build up their diminished soldiers. Attrition was the only way to win. The party lost one member but the long term took years to over come.

The back store, was painful, we as players only knew that we had been hired to investigate and rescue the village if need be. The truth; the church did get those peoples request for help, but due to the nature of the churches habits, they could not directly confront a member of their order, still considered to be in good standing. That would look like a civil war. Men can make mistakes in judgement, even well educated clergy, and that is what happened to our characters; Pawns in a game to protect an image.

In the end our players got charged with murdering a servant of Orhan. The villagers told of how we battled the undead that came from the temple grounds. We got reduced charges, our Paladin was stripped of his rank and title as she was the one who killed the priest. The player took it with grace, sad that things had come to this, she told the court that she would do it again.

The Religious order was offended and concerned that their own Paladins could turn on them and slay them. A rational member noted that the Priest had fallen and the Paladin had reacted appropriated. Out voted the Paladin was stripped of everything, her sword and armour, horse and home all taken in a public display. She was also exiled from the city, never to return.

Although the Order elders may have thought they had dealt with her on behalf of their Gods. In truth, she never lost her powers. Just because humans that ran the church felt she needed to be made an example of her does not mean that the Gods agree. We got extra Fate points, for a while just about everything went our way.

When Divine Law and Religious Law don't quite mesh up. In a later game one of the our villainous turned out to be one of the elders that denounced the paladin, he felt betrayed that his God did not support his decision. How is that for Human Arrogance.

Ummm --- i think I have rambled enough on this one.

E

[Elrik]

Good point Fornitus

At the time the Church was more interested in controlling any violence against the guards. They also wanted to punish the elf. I am certain I could have got an execution with that charge. Denial of Souls to Eternity...

Nice!

[Elrik]

I think I should probably add - since I am in an increadably talkative mood...

Some of the below is common sense, historical reading and built on the fly as I have played.

The Church has several jobs. (short list)

• Give people something to focus their Faith on.
• Provide moral guidance
• Present the Lords in a consistent Light
• Maintain the Order of Society
• Collect funds for the church to function
• Built, grow and promote the Order
• Spy upon the Population

A few of the things they do in my game:

• Fight the teaching of Magic - it is an abomination against Orhan
• Fight the idea of People trying to Step out of their "Place"
• Control the level of Education that the Common people get
• Maintain the serperation of Nobility to Commoner
• Promote King and State
• Heal and Help (although they tend to charge)
• Help those that die to move along (small % do this now)
• Help the Families of those who Die (small % do this now)
• Promote the religion
• Silently crush the other orders/faiths
• Silently subvert Royal Law, replacing it with Order Law
• Silently collect as many nobles, placing them into Knightly and other Holy Orders.
• Silently subvert education, promoting Church Law

This does not cover the millions of bi-laws, common laws, Church Laws, Royal Laws, City, Village, Noble and other laws.

In my current game the Players have yet to really get a taste of what is happening in the cities. I have not even got into the Unlife all that much. The current incident with the whipping was more dumb luck, as they where never intended to confront the church. My PC's felt a certain indignation at what they saw, they got their punishment.

The other thing I have done, is to break the church into sections, similar to what Terry did with the the Orders of the Unlife. Although they are polar to the Unlife's desires, they still have the control thing in common. The sizes of each order are fluid and they do not try to destroy society, only to recreate it in their image.

Smaller sects, groups, cults, and denominations, focus on different things, exalt different ideas, and somehow always end up flaying themselves, others or killing people that don't agree with them or my personal fav; the death cult. Please understand that Death cults and Dooms day cults are very different although they may behave in similar manners. 

Two years ago I had a group of Oriana followers working against the larger order of Orhan. The Oriana group was proclaimed as a sect and functioned more like a cult. Their secretive behaviour was directly related to the Church of Orhan's constant verbal attacks. Once the group was proven to be having secret meetings, the Local representative charged the Oriana group with subversion, demanded the local magistrate arrest the group leaders with Perversions against Orhan and so on.

The party was hired to protect the Oriana Faithful leaders at all cost. The Magistrate watched as the confrontation became a self fulfilling prophesy, and he guessed that there would be a religious war on his door step. He waits for the first attack. Church of Orhan demands that the people rise and purge the cult members from their ranks. "Orhan demands that we few Faithful, cleans our home of this vile stench." Villager attacks villager and paranoia steps in as the mob was given no direction, no one to focus on. The Church steps back and lets things happen. The magistrate, caught off guard, throws his guards into the mayhem, creating more chaos.

The players are now forced to fight villagers. Against their better judgement they are forced to kill a few of the more aggressive and angry attackers. The Magistrate demands the Oriana faithful to evacuate the village, the party mage long doors them out and the remaining party stays to provide cover. The house becomes a nasty battle zone, eventually being set on fire. The party escapes through the back door and over the wall.

Justice was never done. The Priest elder in that village was never charged and the players where charged with murder but never really looked for and the few Oriana faithful that where captured where killed by the Mob. The magistrate is paralysed, do the right thing and loss respect, or do the wrong thing, hunt down the characters and murder them for defending themselves and their charges. He eventually sends out minor or weak bounty hunters.

The Oriana Faithful ended up leaving Jaiman and went to Emer, where they live much better lives. A warrant was put against the players, their heads put up for a price. After a dozen confrontation with Temple Hunters, and dozens more with "unknown" assassin, the party left for Emer and lived out their lives there as well. Before they left, the party did try to clear their name, only to be betrayed by a noblemen that in turn was manipulated. It was a good game.

Wow errr - ramble ramble ramble sorry to take up the bandwidth....

If you want some funky rules and laws check out Hammurabi's Code of Laws: http://eawc.evansville.edu/anthology/hammurabi.htm

ummm yea... now I leave you

E

[mathhatt]

For my group it would never have worked. They are now far too powerful to get "arrested" by common guards, unless they are able to summon fifth pale demons...

[Elrik]

Cities hire more then the common variety eh 

[Fornitus]

 enough pesants with pitchforks and anybody will eventualy go down.

[Elrik]

Yea, pretty much 

[Elrik]

Oohhhh

That reminds me of the game I played in. We met a farmer named Pak, we stormed his farm looking for lugroki. Only to find his dogs. We kill them and Pak goes into a blind rage. His two sons and he man handle us like we are puppets! We run for our lives. I think I was a 6th level fighter with a fancy shinny sword and my party was also pretty tough, but he just slapped us silly.

Later we found out he was a Child of Cay. Some powers, and a bit damaged in the head.

Aaaaa to be arrogant and ignorant of the truths floating around you.

[mocking bird]

For my group it would never have worked. They are now far too powerful to get "arrested" by common guards, unless they are able to summon fifth pale demons...

Why not? 

Who leads the town guards?  Who leads the mages guild or somesuch?  Who do the thieve's guild hire to protect themselves agains the 'locals' and wandering bands of sociopathic adventurers?  Who runs the bars where said adventurers drink?  Surely the party is not the only group of high level people in the city?

[egdcltd]

There's also the (I think, purely fantasy) idea of peace-bonding weapons whilst in urban areas, Players likely to start fights for no reason are also likely to forgot that their weapons have been fastened into their scabbards, and require several minutes unfastening the peace-bond in order to use them. Not the sort of you want to do when starting a fight.

[Elrik]

That must be a bit of a challenge egdcltd, if you have a large population coming into the city do they all have to wait for the weapons bond?

I think the problem is that a lot of PC's seem to think they are outside the structure. In the Players mind their PC is just as important as the King and should be treated with utmost fear and respect. That is a fallacy and a hard one to break players of. I have lost more then my share of players that hated to have to bow.

I  often wonder at Peoples concept of Good and Evil. Manners do not always mean you are Good. Whining does not mean you are good. Being a jerk in a bar does not making you evil... and the list goes on

"Yes, your PC can be cool and strong and fast and deadly, but your character must still function in the World, and sometimes, there are places that have rules that your PC must follow... deal with it." 

[egdcltd]

I think the alternative would be to not carry weapons into the city. Assume most entrants are local and probably not armed, so only out of towners who insist on carrying weapons would be affected. Perhaps a hat check desk for weapons?

[Elrik]

Now I have done that. The city tends to be a bit over zealous about that one as they become responsible for any lost or stolen items.

Minus a massive Magic Dampening field, and some sort of Mood altering spray canisters at every corner, I don't think their is a same and quick way of doing this...

Just look at air ports. Imagine the line up at a city gate as people got their stuff torn apart by guards. But not one gate but three or four! I figure the city would stop dead in it's tracks as people just stopped going there.

[markc]

One thing I do is have city guards have a one use item that can deal with high level PC's. Either a super sleep or something along that line. In general 1 in 4 guards have the special item but if throuble is in the air then they break out more of them to issue to the troops.

MDC

[Elrik]

Good idea

[RandalThor]

It just makes sense that in a magical world that the civilian (and military) forces would use some. Beings in power generally do not like to have that power threatened so a whole bunch of "adventurers" would need to be countered in someway. Perhaps there should be an Adventurer's Regulatory Commitee or something.........