Topic: Varying PP's based on proximity to Essaence flows

[vroomfogle]

I'm starting a campaign in Jaiman and was re-reading that book and looking at the Essence Flow map when an idea occurred.    Since the flows are static (well at least many are - forget the random component for now) it would be easy to adjust daily PP's based on geographical location.   

This would impact Arcane users the most, followed by Essence.   Mentalism users would be mildly affected and Channelers probably none at all.    I wouldn't want to make it too complicated, something like this (for Arcane or essence users):

> 100 miles away from any flow:  50% PPs
< 50 miles away from lesser flow:  125% PPs
< 50 miles from greater flow: 200% PPs

Numbers off the top of my head of course.   Thus, in a few isolated parts of Jaiman (middle of Dansart, in parts of the sea above Xa-ar, perhaps a small section of northern U-Lyshak casters would have reduced PPs.  In most places they would have normal, or slightly increased.   In a few location locations such as around the middle of Jaiman, Arion, southern Ly-Aran, Tanara, a swath through western Rhakhaan, etc...they'd have increased PPs.

Has anyone tried something like this?

Off hand I don't recall an Essence flow map for Emer...is there one?    Nor are there any in the newer books.

Terry, have you gotten away from Flow maps because your thinking has changed (they are more random rather then static like in the Jaiman book) or just because you hadn't gotten around to making them?

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

There was a flow map for Emer somewhere, I remember seeing it -- I think that it may have been part of the same box set that contained the red cover Atlas Addendum (but I could be mis-remembering).

[Cormac Doyle]

I have a vague memory of writing to ICE in the late 90's and asking them to send me a photocopy of said map, because it wasn't in the version of the master Atlas I had bought (2nd Edition) ... which they did, to my surprise

As Such, I'm sure I could find the map if I spent the next couple of weeks searching through old boxes of books that I haven't unpacked since the last move

As to when I'll do that ...

[Cormac Doyle]

BTW - it was a flowmap of the entire western hemisphere; not just Emer

[vroomfogle]

I vaguely recalled a map of Emer as well....but I couldn't find it in the original Emer book, nor the Atlas Addendum.

Hmm, a flowmap of the western hemisphere?   Perhaps in the 1st edition Atlas?   Lemme check...

Ah-ha.  It *is* in the atlas addendum, but not the red-cover one, it is in the Atlas Addendum Conversion (coverless) pamphlet.  It has conversion material for ADD, Runequest, and Fantasy Hero.   Also strangely enough it also includes a couple combat options for breaking 150, what a strange place to put it.   

Anyway, in the back there are three maps of the western hemisphere:
- Essence Flows (including major minor flows, and major/minor foci)
- Volcanic Centers & Tectonic Plates
- Weather Patterns inc Trade Winds, Ocean Currents, and Jetstreams (strong winds)

Although I should note that the essence flows on Jaiman are not the same as what appears in the Jaiman book (for instance there are no flows centered around Arion and are instead around Ulor).

The quality isn't all that great either, being a simple line drawings, but they do contain some useful information at least on the global or continental scale.  Not useful for locale regions.

[markc]

 I have very little experience with SW but I would say for any of my campaigns the numbers you gave about for bonus PP's are way to large for my taste. IMO it would give a huge advantage to arcane spell users even with the added fumble range of spells.
 This may arise from how I view magic and how it flows in my game. In my game magic would flow just about everywhere at a specific flow rate, at others it would be slightly to significantly higher [earthnodes] and with areas of lower rates to a few with no rate of magic flow. You can play with the numbers and areas of effect.

 But as allways every game is different and runs at different power levels.
MDC 

[Terry K. Amthor]

Terry, have you gotten away from Flow maps because your thinking has changed (they are more random rather then static like in the Jaiman book) or just because you hadn't gotten around to making them?

Some of both. My thinking was that major flows (like liquid rivers) were fairly fixed though they could shift slightly over time, or be temporarily disrupted by a storm then settle back to where they were. Minor flows though could shift dramatically like the winds. It just seemed better to let GMs decide for their areas.

[yammahoper]

Being near esseance flows means high ambient essence.  I show this by having 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 pp available every round that can be tapped into, at NO cost to the spell user.  I believe the core rules would demand a spell caster ALWAYS provide at least one pp to cast a spell, but I am more liberal than that.

If you want to use ambient essence, perhaps a good limit of pp that can be tapped a round is equal to ranks in an approapriate skill, or a stat mod.

lynn

[ictus]

great idea....been playing in a game where the DM was doing similar things, but the prox to essence flows effected the cost of a spell not increasing your PP, which is easier to keep track of.

[Terry K. Amthor]

I like that

Being near esseance flows means high ambient essence.  I show this by having 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 pp available every round that can be tapped into, at NO cost to the spell user.  I believe the core rules would demand a spell caster ALWAYS provide at least one pp to cast a spell, but I am more liberal than that.

If you want to use ambient essence, perhaps a good limit of pp that can be tapped a round is equal to ranks in an approapriate skill, or a stat mod.

lynn

I like that idea as well. An additional twist though might be a higher chance of failure if you elect to tap into the 'ambient' Ess?nce... in case there is a 'power surge.' 

[yammahoper]

We do think alike Terry 

In addition, if you have access to the Arcane Companion, use the arcane fumble rules and fumble table.  Essentially, the spell fumble effects a radius in feet equal to the level of the spell fumbled and is applied to all in the radius.  This radius might be increaded by one yard per pp of ambient essence available if you desire those nasty, cataclysmic type results.

lynn

[Temujin]

The rule for casting on a node, from Arcane Companion, are iirc that you only pay 75% of the PP.

[vroomfogle]

I like yamma's idea, not sure which way I will go but I think I might limit the extra PP to a very close proximity to a flow, such as in it or within a few miles.     

Good idea Terry, increasing the failure by 1 for every PP used from the flow might be good.

I'm not sure what an appropriate skill would be to limit the PPs gained from such ambient essence.  Perhaps PP dev?   Plus the actual size of the flow should limit it, such as Minor Flow - 3 PP, Minor Focus - 4 PP, Major Flow 5 PP, Major Focus 6 PP.

Should Ment and Chan users be completely unaffected by flows?   

Could the channeling skill somehow  be used to more directly tap into flows?  As if they were a source?   This would be extremely dangerous of course but could provide a good use for the often ignored Channeling skill.

[markc]

 IMO you could use channeling or creat a new skill for the campaign that players would use.

 I also like the way Yamma does it and have played in a game that used something like it. And as he said you allways had to pay at least some PP and sometime the GM had us pay a min PP equle to the spells rank. This varried by where we were to the node and essence flow as well as what flavor the node or flow was. Also if a flow or node was flavored in any way it might adjust the cost up or down. So a fire essence node or flow might adjust a cold spell up some PP's depending on the distance to the node or flow. In general the flow was not as big a penalty but if you were on the node the the cost of a spell could get very high. This added complexity to the adventure since a fire node most likely had some fire creatures on oe in it. So cold spells doing auto crits or auto damage was not allways a given. The flow or node even affected magic items in his game so there was no out there.

MDC

[Elrik]

I think Spell Mastery (Special) would be a good start. Or even add one similar to Spell Master, Tapping Skill, or Essence Gobble

As you tap the flows you 'should' understand what you are doing. The better your ability to take that raw power, filter and harness it to your needs would be reflected in your skill level. The better the skill the better chance you have of covering most of the spells cost.

Then if you were of a mind you could turn the skill roll into a MM at Extremely Hard and what you roll with the skill is the percentage you have gained to Power a spell. Anything under the number of ranks the PC has is a failure (20 ranks = 20% chance of failure). The flows offer a huge benefit, but as others have stated, it should hurt sometimes.

Spell Mastery/Tapping Skill (Node Tap)
Spell Mastery/Tapping Skill (Flow Tap)
Spell Mastery/Tapping Skill (Site Tap) (Holy sites collect PP)
Spell Mastery/Tapping Skill (Jerk Tap) (take the power from your jerk friends)

The one thing is that the skill should not be as powerful as the Arcane powers. Although for specific things a skillful practitioner could challenge the current order.

Just my 2 bits.

[cdcooley]

Should Ment and Chan users be completely unaffected by flows?   

Could the channeling skill somehow  be used to more directly tap into flows?  As if they were a source?   This would be extremely dangerous of course but could provide a good use for the often ignored Channeling skill.

I think all realms should be affected but in different ways. 

If Essence users are most closely attuned to the flows then it makes sense they would have the easiest access but also the largest potential risks.  So they could freely try to augment their available PP each round, but in turn have a greater spell failure risk for doing so.   That seems balancing enough, especially if you use those "evil GM" failure charts.  Spell casters operating in a city would be strongly discouraged from taking the added risks by their neighbors.

I like the idea of a Channeling caster tapping into a flow with the Channeling skill. And as a skill with it's chance of failure and a collection of nasty consequences, there probably doesn't need to be any further discussion of penalties.  Although there might be a question about the patron deity's opinion of the activity.  I can envision some deities being offended and others being relieved not to have to provide all of the PPs for their followers.

Mentalism casters are the challenge.  The other casters are accustomed to using external power, but mentalists use the power stored within themselves. I've always envisioned the pervading essence seeping into and being metabolized into a usable form by Mentalism casters.  So in my view Mentalism casters should interact with the flows in the PP recovery phase not the spell casting phase.  Being near a flow would let them recover PP more quickly, but they wouldn't be able to directly tap them like the other two realms.  The normal active rate of recovery is 1PP/3hours so maybe as much as 2PP/hour near a major node with corresponding increases while resting/sleeping?  With that sort of indirect connection what, if any, penalty might apply?  Maybe none since this is a passive technique and would never give them quite the same bonuses as the other two realms' active use of the flows?

Letting Essence users augment their PP while casting spells almost naturally, Channeling users tap into a flow as a channeling source, and Mentalism users recover their PP faster has the benefit of giving a little more diversity to the realms.

[RandalThor]

Sorry if this was said already:

I wouldn't necessarily automatically give them more PPs, but maybe make it possible for them to develop a Channelling skill (or the Channelling skill) to be able to tap into the Flow to power their spells. How well they succeed could determine howmany points they get that round.

So high level arcanists is likely put their domicile in the path of an Essence Flow and be very good at drawing power from it for their spells. Whereas the young mage may not be able to utilize the flow at all, in fact trying could be somewhat hazardous to the unskilled. The only thing I would maybe allow to happen automatically (sometimes) is the recovery of PPs. And then only if I felt that the (insert magical type here) was somehow aspected to the flow. Now, I know that the flows aren't aspected as they are presented in Kulthea right now, but.............

[yammahoper]

The use of channeling or spell mastery seems appropriate here.

A strict GM may rule only list with with Spell Mastery may take advantage of the ambient esseance.  (I myself use one spell mastery skill for all list)

Channeling could work too.  Regardless, the pp that can be tapped into could be determined by a skill check easily enough, perhaps even using pp dev.  Two ways this could be handled;

1) Assign pp gained a dificulty and make roll.  1pp is easy, 2 pp is easy, 3pp is med, 4pp is hard, etc.  Any scale could be used depending on your taste and world/GM style.

2) Potential pp that can be gained is determined by GM and roll is made to see what % od pp can be accessed.  GM says 8th level Mage must make Very Hard MM using channeling/spell mastery skill and roll determines percentage of pp that can be accessed.

[Elrik]

Regarding the Channelling Skill

When ever I envision a group of mages or spell users of some sort getting together and mainly focusing on a ritual, they connect to each other, feeding their power into the Principle. When I have cult activity they are all using Channelling. Most of my players never think of it, although at one time we had 3 mages in the party and we developed Channelling and used it to over charge spells. Users of channelling should only share with their own ilk.

Priests and Mentalists still have to develop PP, so that means it can be taken away. Since Flow storms or micro storms or even a surge of unexpected power or influence are of the Arcane flavour so PP can be taken away or given.

To explain further: In my games I conclude that the Spell caster, no matter what Realm, is doing their best to maximize their PP development. So at any one time they are "topped up". For storing ambient PPs I give them their PP total + 50%.  I have played in games where the GM let us store to our hearts content. It was ridiculous. I stored so much power that I took me 4 game sessions to start using my own PP and I had a x3 multiplier. Fun but Ridiculous!

Basically anything derived by the Flows is subject to the flows. Psychics are not derived nor are they a derivative of the Flows.

Although My mages can feel the flows from some distance, I don't give them any real benefit till they are within 2 km of them. At about the 2k mark they are getting one extra PP a round that they can tap but not store. Every half km gives them an extra PP. At one Km (from the flow) they can start to store up to half their normal PP (no multipliers). As they leave vicinity, farther then 2k, the stored PP will bleed of at 1 PP an hour. Unless they have the right profession, or spells most mages have no real way of storing extra PP. Essence users would store the PP in their Aura, while the Mentalist charges their Body.

The above may change with the power of the Flow or Node. It is not perfect but I do a fair bit on the fly. I never give more then 6 free PP a round and even then it has to be a major node.

I am probably arguing semantics here but I think Spells would not get cheaper the closer to the Node/flow you are. Spells always cost the same to power them. By lowering the casting cost it sort of implies that the Players are plucking the Spell out of the air and casting from there. That could also imply that some spells work better near certain flows... which I think was stated earlier. If An elementalist was casting spells then yea, distance from fire or ice or water would make a huge difference. Casting a 10 point spell will aways cost 10 points, but being in vicinity of a Flow or Node will make it easer to pay the price as the spell caster can draw upon the ambient PP in the area. I also seem to remember something stating that sometimes it is much harder to cast while near a node or flow as the power is being pulled from you. A fast moving Flow would act like a river and draw you under, draining your PP.

Just the ramblings of my fractured imagination.

[yammahoper]

Just the ramblings of my fractured imagination.

I like your ramblings.  That may well be one of the most thoughtful and entertaining post I read in a while.