Topic: Priests Arnak?

[egdcltd]

The top leadership would be the fanatically insane, the lower levels, the dupes. However, just because the lower levels are dupes doesn't make them nice people.

It could be as you advance in the cult, you have more and more contact with the Unlife, which damages your sanity.

[Zwilnik]

I pretty much agree with RandalThor. Arnak insanity level goes up with rank and the lower ranks don't really know what goes on at the top. By the time they figure things out, they are also throughly corrupted and don't care anymore.

Most likely the low-rank acolytes don't even get to meet the high priest or many of the real priests Arnak. It would depend on the method of recruiting. I would say there are three methods for that (barring the occasional fast-track recruitment when a depraved person finds out the truth about Arnak and joins despite that).

1) People in rural or wilderness areas may see the Arnak order as little more than a school or monastery, and may seek admittance because they don't know the risks. Messenger cults may appeal to warrior cultures, and joining one could be the equivalent of a biker club membership in Jaiman. Indoctrination, fame within the order and rewards for raids will be enough to bond warriors to cult, and if any of them seem weak or repentant, it's what sacrifices are for.

2) Drafting or kidnapping children or youths can be useful when dwindling numbers of acolytes or soldiers cannot be filled with normal recruiting. They have to be brainwashed by low-rank acolytes since a full priest is unlikely to devote his full attention to kids.

3) In towns and cities the Arnak will set up fake religions or masquerade as priests of an existing religion. They will push out or infiltrate other temples in the region and may play them against each other until they are dominant or at least influential. Then they recruit like any other faith, waiting for the devout, disaffected or destitute to approach them. Devout people are either broken and brought into the ranks of the priesthood (if they have magical potential) or just broken so they don't cause problems later. Disaffected and poor make useful low-ranking tools.

The lowest apprentices are almost useless to the Arnak unless they show initiative and ability. But even evil priesthoods require flunkies to make sure black candles are kept lit and temples in cities cleaned. If they show potential, they can be promoted into spies, messengers or actual acolytes (again, if they have magical potential). Even those with no ability can still be useful by preaching to others and maintaining the evil infrastructure.

When an acolyte joins the temple, he probably knows nothing about the true Arnak. Even his immediate superiors may know nothing. This may be mandatory, as a traveling Loremaster could notice a true Priest Arnak but may overlook a stooge. Through subtle testing and promotion the acolytes are either slowly brought into the dark fold or destroyed. They begin to see the church as a means of power. But there is always someone of higher rank, so they have to keep serving or become harder and more ruthless than their superiors so they can replace them.

At some point, indoctrination and occasional contact with Unlife-tainted power will begin to turn them towards insanity. Not the frothing-at-the-mouth type but a more subtle form. Eventually they will be given an assignment of their own and are junior priests Arnak, no longer priests of whatever local or subverted deity they believed themselves to be earlier. But still they do not know what Unlife wants. They only see it as a source of power for their own purposes, and their only purpose now is to gain status in the order so one day they can boss others instead of being bossed.

After wielding the power of Unlife long enough, their normal perception of the world slowly fades away and gets distorted. Their goals are forgotten. Only power matters. Finally, either insanity and obsession take over and the priest's advancement stops, or he uses the power once too much and is throughly corrupted and lost, becoming nothing more than a channel for Unlife.

The chain of command from top to bottom is such that those who know what Unlife wants don't care, and those who would care don't know. In the middle are various levels of megalomania, greed and avarice that make the priests think that they can replace the 'old insane priests' and take over the order.

Too many words. Must stop now.

Except for one thing. When the Arnak establish themselves in an area, they must either invent a religion or use an existing one. Invented religions take a lot of effort and time to set up since they cannot be easily discarded (otherwise they become nothing more than 'a cult of the week' and people will not get interested). Using an existing religion is problematic since there are not only the priests of that religion to deal with but also their god. Granted, Kulthean gods are hardly all-knowing, but sooner and later they will turn their attention to an oddly-behaving bunch of priests.
If I had to guess, I would say that the Yarthraak cult (Yaarth, I think it was) was an invented religion that had been implanted in the region centuries ago. Too bad Aeryk blew its cover when he instituted human sacrifices.

Does anyone have any ideas on this? If the Arnak priests infiltrate a real religion, can they be so subtle as to not draw suspicion from other temples? Are the deities in your campaigns unwilling or unable to intervene with such infiltration? Or is it possible that they don't even notice? Remember the cover used by Osaran.

[markc]

 I have been watching the Tutors on DVD and it seams like exzactly what people above are talking about. The series has the rise of Lutherism and some splits in the Catholic church with all the inner battles for keeping material power or rooting out abuses.
 [Note: I used the above example just as a reference and not to infringe on anybodies religous beliefs. I have I caused you harm in any way please send me a PM and I will remove this post as it is not my intention in any way to disparage anyones religon or beliefs.]

 Like it was said above IMO the priests wouls gradually inflitrate their targets and gradually warp thier religon to suit thier own needs and desires. I think that the Warhammer 40k universe has good examples of how to corrupt a societys religous beliefs and the affects of that corruption.
 Another factor in the W 40K universe is that the society is so big that people have problems tracking just what is going on where. So if there are no good ways to root out information then IMO it becomes easier for the Arnak to achieve thier goals. And it is gnerally in the aftermath that the other religon finally gets the whole picture of just what went on.

MDC

[Walt]

Everything that is life is imperfection.

Beware the pain in your body, beware the people having power over your life, beware the noble robbing your money, beware your ungrateful kids, beware your gods wanting your attention, beware your cheating wife, beware YOU getting old and dying unvalued by the ones around you.

And now imagine your life without disabilities. Imagine a life in perfection. Imagine a life in honour and personal power, valued by your fellows. You are on the road to holy perfection, on the road to get rid of all the pains hurting you so deeply in your soul.

Everything that is life is imperfection!

[Walt]

Rereading the Com 6 I stumbled once more about the Elor vs Logarlis discussion.

Accordingly to this discussion the core doctrine of the Priest Arnak would be the elimination of death. Thus offering their followers the undead-option for eternety.

[Vince]

mmm tricky question but interesting.

This conversation between Lorgalis and Elor  is very interesting, but has two things to come in mind before discussing it.

1.-This isn't a text written by Terry so it's no related to his "idea" of the Arnak Priests in SW by Terry.
2.- Lorgalis isn't a Arnak Priest, only and ally to them, and not always.

After all this, i have to agree that the Official idea about why the Arnak priest are that way is very fragile and short. I like a lot more how this text in Companion VI tries to extract something that you can use with evil characters. By far, the motivation of the Arnak Priests is the weakest link in the chain of the SW.

I usually like to think more of them like this text, but for the moment the players had not ask something about this topic, asuming easily that bad boys are simply bad boys...
 

[kmanktelow]

Hi, All,

One of the things with the Priests Arnak, and the Evil Spell lists in general, is that there doesn't seem to be any real incentive to use them. Sure, once you learn your first 'Evil' Spell list, you get another set of PPs. But, once your Essaence Soul reaches zero, you lose your normal PPs....

How, exactly, is that a benefit again? Convert to total Evil and then you lose 50% of your spell casting ability...?

I favour the idea, that once you learn an Evil List, you simply utilise the Unlife for casting those Spells- your Base PP's and Total PP's stay the same. To save messing around, assume that you have to 'overcome' things like PP enhancers- the easiest way to simulate this, is to simply increase the number of Unlife PPs needed to cast an Evil Spell. I'd suggest increasing the PPs required by the items bonus. X2 Multiplier= 2 X Unlife PPs required (This stops you having to start doing any ugly averaging calculations, and having to track two lots of PP Exhaustion. Spell Mastery could be used here, to overcome the enhancer's inherent resistance to the anti-essaence.)

The above may sound harsh, but consider the Unlife Channels List- the 5th Level Power Draining would in the above example cost 10PP to cast- but you get back half of the Total PPs of the Target- and target's realm doesn't matter!

Additionally, you could allow an Evil Character to Sacrifice some of his Essaence Soul, in return for additional Unlife PPs. I'd suggest a ratio of 10 PPs per 1 Point Essaence Soul. (Or maybe a die roll- but you need the Unlife to be 'giving' the character something.)

Anyone else got any ideas?

All the Best,

Kevin.

[metallion]

Some suggested outlooks on the unlife:

Lorgalis:  The Unlife is a tool.  A very effective one.  I am a Wizard and Warrior, not a Priest.  I have no theology.  I need no theology.  Theology is a tool for keeping the masses in their place, starting with theologians.

Priests Arnak might well espouse a twisted notion of Buddhism's four Noble Truths, something along the lines of "To exist is to suffer.  Even mere death is not the end of suffering.  We bring release from the wheel of reincarnation, unity with non-being.

[Zwilnik]

Hi, All,

One of the things with the Priests Arnak, and the Evil Spell lists in general, is that there doesn't seem to be any real incentive to use them. Sure, once you learn your first 'Evil' Spell list, you get another set of PPs. But, once your Essaence Soul reaches zero, you lose your normal PPs....

How, exactly, is that a benefit again? Convert to total Evil and then you lose 50% of your spell casting ability...?

(*snip*)

The way I see it, evil PPs are nothing more than bait. Unlife cannot control a normal spellcaster, but it can offer extra power for the greedy and the needy. The more evil PPs a caster uses, the more influence Unlife gains on him. When the caster irrevocably crosses over to the dark side, Unlife gains total control but also loses the ability to tap into normal power. Any player character would become an NPC, so this is comparable to death without the possibility of resurrection. Harsh? Just say no to evil.

[Terry K. Amthor]

Reading Powers, the Priests Arnak goal seems to be to advance the aims of the Unlife - the destruction of everything. Not the sort of thing that would appeal to the lower orders of the Priests, who are probably mostly interested in power. The top leadership would basically a bunch of insane individuals capable of faking rationality who want to destroy everything, including themselves, by any means necessary.

When you have a 'force' whose ultimate goal is the destruction of everything, then any of its followers must either be:
- ignorant of this ultimate goal (i.e. unknowing of the 'goal' but somehow 'duped' into being involved)
- fanatically insane (i.e. 'in the know' but delaying their own destruction as a means to making more destruction)

Also, I thought there were some distinct differences between The Unlife and undead.

DonMoody

Why does this discussion make me think of Scientology? The high priests seem rational and charismatic until one day they snap and start jumping on couches... 

[dutch206]

Why does this discussion make me think of Scientology? The high priests seem rational and charismatic until one day they snap and start jumping on couches... 

"You are so glib, Terry." 

ROFLMAO

[Terry K. Amthor]

Did I get a laugh point out of that? 

I better be careful or the Body Thetans will be after me...

[kmanktelow]

Hi, All,

I'm not 100% sure how cannon the information is, but in the Iron Wind module, the Iron Wind and the Priests Arnak are mentioned by Elor:

"3.21 The Priests Arnak.

The Iron Wind is known as a power- and only through its minions. The least of these are the Priests Arnak (of High Imla Arna- "The Evil High Priests"), and they are the first to enter a given land that is marked for conversion."

Further on is mentioned:

"3.23 The Ordainers.

The Ordainers are the closest servants of the Iron Wind, and of them only six are known. They are the viceroys of the Unlife in its domains and rarely leave the strongholds that are built for them, preferring to send the Messengers to remove those who oppose them or the Priests Arnak. They themselves only come forth where immense power is called for and whole armies would be impractical. They are the demonic masters of such power and it is in consideration of the priestly might that my blood recoils, for they are but servants of the Iron Wind...."

Is it possible that the Priests Arnak are simply tools, that serve the Ordainers (perhaps one Order Arnak per Ordainer?)

Compare this to the Steel Dawn in 'Powers'- who serve and feed the sentient Silver Mist, or the Demon Sarakath on the island of Phegri, from 'Islands of the Oracle', who "oversees much of the Evil activity in this region of Kulthea."
Additionally, the Timeline in 'Jaiman' states that:

"6,203 ? An Ordainer appears in SW U-Lyshak and leads an army of
evil creatures southwards. Mortals flee before this demonic monster."

"6,450 - 6,825 ? Wars of Dominion. Ordainers lead armies of unspeakable
horrors from the bowels of the earth and beyond."

Whilst in the Xa-ar timeline is mentioned:

"6521: The Ordainer Kharugh overwhelms the Wyvern Crown?s defensive powers and leads a dark army into Saralis. He enters the capital of Turak and slays the king, destroying the crown."

It seems, to me at least, that Unlife's primary servants are Ordainers, or similar chaotic demonic entities- these in turn control the Unlife's more acceptable 'human' face- the Priests Arnak, the Messengers, etc, etc.

As for how the Priests Arnak themselves operate- in many ways I'd suggest seeing the Loremaster thread!

One thing that they do seem to do is infiltrate existing organisations/religions. They could also resurrect old, half forgotten religions- what humans' would
now remember the original doctrines of a religion that was abandoned hundreds of years ago?
From these positions of respectability, they are able to offer (supposedly) sage counsel and wise advice.

Hope this Helps,

All the Best,

Kevin.

[RandalThor]

One thing that they do seem to do is infiltrate existing organisations/religions. They could also resurrect old, half forgotten religions- what humans' would
now remember the original doctrines of a religion that was abandoned hundreds of years ago?
From these positions of respectability, they are able to offer (supposedly) sage counsel and wise advice.

Hope this Helps,

All the Best,

Kevin.

Except in the Shadow World that human can turn to the elf next to him and just ask.......as that elf has lived for the last 3,000 years he would likely know. Or, at least, know better than the human.

[kmanktelow]

Except in the Shadow World that human can turn to the elf next to him and just ask.......as that elf has lived for the last 3,000 years he would likely know. Or, at least, know better than the human.
[/quote]

Chuckle! Good Point, RandalThor!!

There's still the old distrust of elven kind, particularly in Rhakhaan and various other Human domains. And, I wonder how much notice Elves would actually take of the Human religions, that seem to be here one minute, and gone the next (in Elven terms.)

Plus, there's the Elven Memory, where they don't remember things like Humans do- I can't remember what book it's in, however.

It's not so much that they forget, it's more that the older memories fade and become obscured by newer memories. This is what stops them becoming jaded and thinking that there's nothing new under the sun. That way, they still see the sun rise each day and think "What a beautiful sun-rise."

All the Best,

Kevin.

[markc]

 Also I think that the Priests could shape-change and sudenly become an Elf that disagrees with the real Elf on just what went on way back then.

MDC

[kmanktelow]

 

I feel a headache coming on......

 

Funnily enough, Priests Arnak are mentioned as often appearing as Elven Sages....

All the Best,

Kevin.

[markc]

 Sorry for the head ache, but many years as a GM have twisted my mind. OOOH and I have played with some real mind twisting GM's also.

 I have quite a few SW PDF's and I got them maninly for adventure material for my fantasy game. But maybe I will try a game out with the new setting book. So what I guess I am saying is that I jump in to bounce questions and ideas off of the SW fans and I am very sorry if I go against cannon.

MDC [Volenteer Mod]

[kmanktelow]

Hi, markc,

Don't worry about the headache (I've always got paracetemol in work- I frequently need it!)

But, it's nice to have ideas bounced around by different GMs, even regarding things that are supposedly cannon- because there's always different interpretations- probably as many as there are GM's.

So feel free to 'bounce around'!

Yeah, the Shadow World modules are a good resource for ideas for other fantasy- or even Sci-fi games. (Hell, some of them were even written for other Games. The Orgillion Horror springs to mind- which my players loved, as it was such a change in pace when they played it, part way through the 'Legacy of the Sea-Drake.)

I've got to admit, that I haven't GM'd in years- family and work commitments (particularly shift-work, night's of all things) just make it impossible. But, I've always kept wondering about what was happening in the Shadow World- in particular the Unlife has always made me think about what it is really about. I suppose because I'm of a scientific background, I consider it to more be a form of semi-sentient Entropy, battling the forces of order (The Essaence).

That's part of the reason I was pleased to find Powers and the new Xa-ar modules- as they do add some new depth and detail to the Unlife.

All the Best,

Kevin.

[markc]

 The Orgillon Horror was introducted to me in a home brew game. And it was very fun to play, with stuff that gave all of our PC's troubles but none more than mine as I took a crossbow bolt to the head and woke up 3 days later with one less fate point.

MDC