Topic: History of U-Lyshak

[munchy]

Weird but in game terms cool agenda. Does he really work for the White Mage? I always saw the Arnak's as an "independent" force for more or less the same side. He does not really seek destruction but in contrast to them dominance, doesn't he?

[Terry K. Amthor]

Weird but in game terms cool agenda. Does he really work for the White Mage? I always saw the Arnak's as an "independent" force for more or less the same side. He does not really seek destruction but in contrast to them dominance, doesn't he?

Lorgalis and the priests Arnak have had an off-again/on-again relationship for ages. Aeryk was working for him as a sort of lesser ally, but with his own agenda.

[munchy]

Thanks. Then I got that more or less right. Well, for Lorgalis its probably quite okay if a realm is destroyed by the priests of Arnak. This would only be the first step. He would then later get rid of the priests - or at least would plan to - and then establish dominance over the destroyed realm forming a new one under his control.

[metallion]

By 6210, the Ordainer takes Cynar, which is still the capital of the north. (Remember the Priests Arnak seek destruction, not dominance: Aeryk is happy to see this realm he ruled be wiped out.

I thought the forces of Ulor, perhaps even led by Lorgalis personally, sacked Cynar?  Or did that change between 3rd Ed and 4th Ed of the Master Atlas?

[Walt]

Also, I'm not sure where the 'western' reference came from.

Probably out of your pen 
published in Jaiman (1989)  (p 11)
By the way, for sure in this time it did make sense: Logarlis is in the west, so the west is ruled by the bad guys. Easy as this.

But the newer, refined story, is better. The only thing I don?t like is this "Aeryk working for the White Mage". That?s too smooth.

In my version Logarlis thought Aeryk would work for him. But after getting into the rulership of Su-Lyak, Aeryk (in his younger years  ) refused to work for Logarlis. So Logarlis was forced to crush (for his forces costly) the military force of Su-Lyak and, partly, of the Yarthraak.
That?s why in our timeline there still some rivalry and a quaarel between those both.

That?s also why this time, in the Third Age, Logarlis himself helped Kier Ianis to escape. Kier is supposed to be his "weapon" if Aeryk tries to bulldoodoo (kidding?to twit him again? what strange reviewing mechanismen ist this?) him again .

[Walt]

Out of the "Loremaster" thread arised an interesting question. Speaking of History, who uses the second age as some mystical age, with vague informations about and who uses the data given in the sense of correct, easy obtainable information?

[DonMoody]

I think most people use a mix.

In some areas, very little (if anything) is known about the Second Era.
For example, the Lankan?k did not 'form' out of nothing but the people(s) which became the kingdom of Lankan?k likely have (very?) little (if any?) knowledge of the Second Era.

In many (most?) areas, more is known about the Second Era but a fair amount of that is viewed as mythical stories (of course, with magic, many would believe most mythical stories have some basis in fact).
For example, in Jaiman 'artifacts' from deep in the Second Era (the crowns, swords, and pendants) are widely known and there is a fair amount of [at least kingdom] continuity from the Second Era through all of the Third Era.

In a few areas, a lot is known about the Second Era (this is most likely in continuous 'secret' and long lived groups; e.g. the Loremasters and elven societies, respectively).
For example, the Navigators have been in continual existence since well before the end of the Second Era and surely know a lot about 'what actually happened' during the Second Era - likely on a [western hemisphere] world-wide basis.

DonMoody

[Zwilnik]

Out of the "Loremaster" thread arised an interesting question. Speaking of History, who uses the second age as some mystical age, with vague informations about and who uses the data given in the sense of correct, easy obtainable information?

Depends on location. On Emer I have hinted to the second age very vaguely, pretty much as a myth or legend. On Jaiman I would make it more historical, mostly because of the very real age of Rhakhaan. But only for the well-educated. And they would only have easy access to local/mundane information.

Another question. How much does a typical mannish (not elven) historian believe about the Second Era if he got decent access to it? Gods have mostly laid low for six thousand years, so would a learned Rhakhaanian layman believe they were hacking each other and entire armies to pieces, or would they just laugh at the wild imagination of their forefathers?

"Oh please, those yokels thought someone with a black blade must have been Z'taar. How sad."

[Walt]

I myself don?t give to much reliable information away. There were the Loremaster, the Priest Arnak, the White Magician and who ever, all using propaganda to achive their goals. So at least for the mannish historian it must be hard to decide what?s the truth. So even all the ressources of Nomikos will contradict in this or that point.

But I would think it?s a little bit different with the elvish historians. Even if I don?t use 12000 years old elves as open source in the "Green basket" downtown Haalkitaine, there will be contemporary witnesses in the elvish society available for the elvish historian. So they will have a better view of the past.

(As a member of the Zorian nobility I would never believe an elvish historian!)

But with the gods? I think Kultheans have a direct understanding that there really ARE gods. So probably they would believe that Z?taar fought against Cay in the field over there.

[Zwilnik]

(As a member of the Zorian nobility I would never believe an elvish historian!)

Yep.

But with the gods? I think Kultheans have a direct understanding that there really ARE gods. So probably they would believe that Z?taar fought against Cay in the field over there.

That depends on whether the GM wants to portray the locals as bright-eyed idealists or practical cynics. Both groups probably believe in gods, but their beliefs are not always similar.

A peasant may swallow any story from the second age straight up either because it sounds good or it is comforting to know a god may physically step down to save a troubled village. An imperial baron may not be as quick to believe everything. Gods who intervene directly in worldly matters may interfere with his right to rule the peasants, and it is easier for him to dismiss such stories as ancient ramblings, especially when the last twenty generations have had no such problems.

There are bound to be both sorts in every social class. Many choose to interpret history in a way that is most convenient or most satisfying for them.

[DonMoody]

Many choose to interpret history in a way that is most convenient or most satisfying for them.

Well, when there are individuals who wield direct power from a god (i.e. channeling users), it is a bit difficult to dismiss what they say about the gods (and their god in particular).
That is, interpreting history on Kulthea is not the same as interpreting history here on Earth.
On Kulthea, one can find fairly definitive sources - if one has the time/desire to find them.
On Earth, we have no such sources.

Of course, even those definitive sources could be dismissed as 'magic using charlatans' (i.e. someone who can use magic and is just claiming their power is from a god).
(Unless the 'charlatan' want to makes a point about being referred to as a charlatan.)

DonMoody

[Walt]

A peasant may swallow any story from the second age straight up either because it sounds good or it is comforting to know a god may physically step down to save a troubled village. An imperial baron may not be as quick to believe everything. Gods who intervene directly in worldly matters may interfere with his right to rule the peasants, and it is easier for him to dismiss such stories as ancient ramblings, especially when the last twenty generations have had no such problems.
There are bound to be both sorts in every social class. Many choose to interpret history in a way that is most convenient or most satisfying for them.

I think it goes together. Like DonMoody writes, their are some persons wielding some channeld power. But I could also imagine enough barons interpreting history like they want it to be. And how much can this barons be afraid of the gods?
The problem is, Terry focused more and more on the Orhan and Charon gods. So all the local dietys are heavily underepresented. And at the same time their are enough magic wielders much powerfuler than a channeling priest. And under the assumption that also the gods of Orhan had a low-profile for 6000 years for sure their can be a lot of nobles not caring any more for the gods of Orhan!