Topic: Trouble figuring out RR bonuses...

[GoblynByte]

Forgive me if this is a completely brainless problem.  I'm having trouble figuring out how to formulate the various Resistance Roll modifiers for RMSS characters.  Up to this point I've used the spreadsheet for chargen and so all that was done for me.  But to further educate myself I wanted to learn how to do it by hand.  But I can't seem to get my RR bonuses to come out the same as they do with the same characters made in the spreadsheet.  Can someone help me out?  What are the formulas for these?  I've read the rulebook but always seem to come up with the wrong numbers.

For instance, when determing the RR bonus for a hybrid spell which racial bonus do I use?

[Arioch]

For instance, when determing the RR bonus for a hybrid spell which racial bonus do I use?

AFAIK none: hybrid RR bonus is simply Realm Stat 1 + Realm Stat 2 (i.e.: Em+Pr for Essence/Mentalism)
The others are:
Essence: Em*3
Channeling: In*3
Mentalism: Pr*3
Arcane: Em+In+Pr
Fear: AC*3
Poison: Co*3
Disease: Co*3

Own realm get a +15 bonus

[GoblynByte]

Own realm get a +15 bonus

OH!  Well that's a big one I apparently missed.  I wonder where that is in the RMSR book.  I'll have to hunt that down (not because I don't believe you, just because I like to know where these things are in case it comes up in the future  )

[PiXeL01]

I would guess the main book and or spell law for the +15 bonus

[Ecthelion]

IIRC the RMSS/RMFRP don't contain the +15 for own realm.

[yammahoper]

Page 81 of the RMSR.

lynn

[GoblynByte]

Page 81 of the RMSR.

lynn

That entry doesn't mention the +15 for "own" realm (unless I'm completely blind).  I think that +15 is coming up in the spreadsheet so I would think it would be taken from somewhere.  Was that something maybe added into RMFRP but not RMSS?  That would make sense since I think the spreadsheet was designed more with RMFRP updates (not that there are a LOT of these, but it would explain why I'm having trouble figuring this particular aspect out...or I could just be dense  ).

Is there also a special formula for figuring out Arcane RR?  The spreadsheet always comes up with a different number than what I get by adding EM + PR + IN.

[Ecthelion]

It is some time ago that I last took a look into the RMFRP book, but I don't remember the +15 for own realm appearing anywhere in the book. So unless anyone can give a reference in the official books I doubt that such an official rule exists (at least for RMSS & RMFRP). The author of the spreadsheet probably simply made a mistake.

A comment on RRs vs. Hybrid Spell Users: We did never use the official formulas in our group. The new formula seemed to have be chosen purely to enable a simple calculation. From a rules POV it was a change from RM2 where the hybrid RRs were the average of the RRs of the two realms involved. In RMSS it was suddenly only about two thirds of this value as - only for Hybrid Spell RRs - only two stats were added for calculation the RR. We still use the average of the two single realm RRs.

[telekita]

the +15 to the same realm appears in the resistance  table in p230 of the RMFRP

[GoblynByte]

A comment on RRs vs. Hybrid Spell Users: We did never use the official formulas in our group. The new formula seemed to have be chosen purely to enable a simple calculation. From a rules POV it was a change from RM2 where the hybrid RRs were the average of the RRs of the two realms involved. In RMSS it was suddenly only about two thirds of this value as - only for Hybrid Spell RRs - only two stats were added for calculation the RR. We still use the average of the two single realm RRs.

Hmmm...if you allow them to add in both racial bonuses to the contributing realms of the hybrid aspect it would probably end up working out about the same, though, wouldn't it?  You'd be down on stat, but up two racial mods which would match up to the three stats and one racial mod of other realms.  Does it actually ever state that you don't use the racial mods for hybrid RRs?

[PiXeL01]

the easy solution would be to calculate each realm and then average it by the number of realms involved. That way you get the racial mods included

[Ecthelion]

the +15 to the same realm appears in the resistance  table in p230 of the RMFRP

Thanks for correcting me. I took a look at the RMSS Spell Law and it also appears there in the notes for the RR table. So it's been in the rules for RMSS and RMFRP - I've simply never noticed it. Does anyone know how this works for Hybrid Spell Users? Does e.g. a Sorcerer get the +15 vs. Channeling and Essence spells or only vs. other Sorcerer's spells?

[Ecthelion]

the easy solution would be to calculate each realm and then average it by the number of realms involved. That way you get the racial mods included

And that's exactly how we do it.

[PiXeL01]

Being hybrid counts as being of two (or more) realms, so +15 counts fully both in Channeling and Essence for Sorcerers

[GoblynByte]

Okay, here's how the spreadsheet does it (this is Jonathan Dale's spreadsheet from November 2003)...

• Essence RR = 3 x Em + Racial Essence Bonus
• Channeling RR = 3 x In + Racial Channeling Bonus
• Mentalism RR = 3 x Pr + Racial Mentalism Bonus
• Arcane RR = Em + In + Pr + Ractial Essence Bonus + Racial Channeling Bonus + Racial Mentalism Bonus
• Ess./Chan. RR = Em + In  + Racial Essence Bonus + Racial Channeling Bonus
  
• Ess./Ment. RR = Em + Pr + Racial Essence Bonus + Racial Mentalism Bonus
• Ment./Chan. RR = Pr + In + Racial Mentalism Bonus + Racial Channeling Bonus

For all of these there is a +15 bonus for "own" realm, but it only applies to one realm for "pure" spell users (e.g. a Magician gets a +15 to Essence, but no bonus to Ess./Chan.).  Hybrid spell users are given the +15 bonus to their hybrid realm and to the contributing realms individually (e.g. a Sorcerer gets the +15 to the Chan./Ess. realm and to the Channeling realm and the Essence realm).

Again, this is the way the spreadsheet formulates the RRs, but I honestly can't find anything in the RMSS books that disputes any of this.  Not to say it's absolutely balanced or fair, but that does seem to be the way the rules are presented.  I could very well be wrong, though. 

[Arioch]

Hybrid spell users are given the +15 bonus to their hybrid realm and to the contributing realms individually (e.g. a Sorcerer gets the +15 to the Chan./Ess. realm and to the Channeling realm and the Essence realm).

That's how we do it, too...