Author Topic: Menstruation in SW  (Read 12728 times)

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Offline symbolique

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Menstruation in SW
« on: September 20, 2006, 04:37:36 PM »
I'm not sure if this has been discussed, written or brought up before. I only seriously looked into it after a female player in my group mentioned it to me and with the 5 moons I thought... better get the calculator (j/k).

Any ideas?
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Offline Marc R

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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2006, 04:40:31 PM »
I can't wait to see Terry's answer to this one.
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Offline Elton Robb

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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2006, 04:49:34 PM »
Some questions have to be asked.
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Offline munchy

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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2006, 05:36:38 PM »
I'm not sure what the question here is ... did I miss something? Menstruation is not like tide and ebb, is it? It has nothing to do with the moon or moons... Women don't all have their menstruation according to one phase of the moon.
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Offline symbolique

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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2006, 05:58:26 PM »
There is proof for and against. Tests with artificial lighting for and then there's the difference of menstruation cycles with animals in our world against.

Though obviously not all women have their menstruation at the same time in the world :)
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Offline Terry K. Amthor

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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2006, 06:04:31 PM »
I am completely unqualified to answer this. ???

However, it does bring to mind the interesting question of immortal elves. Human women only have a set number of eggs (or follicles, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folliculogenesis), right? So either elven women can make more, or their menstruate so rarely... once every few years...? That would also explain their relative infertility.

As for mortal women, you decide!
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Offline Dirik

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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2006, 12:20:33 AM »
Great subject :)

Generally I like Terrys idea of having elves menstruate rarely. But, it also brings forth the 'problem' of halfbreeds being too common? Not meaning Sulinis, Kytaaris etc.

 

Offline mathhatt

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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2006, 03:06:32 AM »
I did a small game aid about how races can interbred in shadow world. You can find it here :

http://www.sden.org/Description-des-races-et-fertilite.html

There is also an excel sheet that allows you to compute the chances that an union will lead to a child depending on the race of each of the parents. Also, the number of months of pregnancy, as well as the mean number of children per woman :

http://www.sden.org/IMG/zip/races.zip
(it is in french but if you are interested I can translate it quickly in english)

« Last Edit: September 21, 2006, 03:11:55 AM by mathhatt »
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Offline Vince

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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2006, 05:38:05 PM »
Great subject :)

Generally I like Terrys idea of having elves menstruate rarely. But, it also brings forth the 'problem' of halfbreeds being too common? Not meaning Sulinis, Kytaaris etc.

 
Mmm maybe it's more common having mortal mothers that inmortal mothers??
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Offline Wōdwulf Seaxaning

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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2006, 02:13:02 PM »
I did a small game aid about how races can interbred in shadow world. You can find it here :

http://www.sden.org/Description-des-races-et-fertilite.html

There is also an excel sheet that allows you to compute the chances that an union will lead to a child depending on the race of each of the parents. Also, the number of months of pregnancy, as well as the mean number of children per woman :

http://www.sden.org/IMG/zip/races.zip
(it is in french but if you are interested I can translate it quickly in english)



Anyplans on having the info translated to English?
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Offline mathhatt

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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2006, 03:51:37 AM »
Anyplans on having the info translated to English?
RoseCity

I'm working on it but I don't have a lot of spare time. Maybe next week !
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Offline symbolique

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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2006, 03:56:22 AM »
Mathhatt, I know I would appreciate a translation. English is my only language and my female player who plays a K'ta'viiri/Dyari crossbreed has plumbed me for menstruation details which I had never thought about. Her player is surreptitiously trying to get pregnant with her partner, so any information that I don't have to grab from the ether would be well appreciated.

Kind regards
Jason Just
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Offline mathhatt

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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2006, 05:12:52 AM »
I just finished to translate the excel sheet in english. However it does not include the menstruation information. It only computes the probability that the union leads to a pregnancy and a viable (though maybe sterile) child. This probability should be modified (GM discretion) by other factors such as menstruation/ovulation and the time intercourse actually happens, care and hygien of life...
http://mathhatt.free.fr/jdr/rm/sw/docs/races_english.xls

If I had to state a rule in my own campaign about menstruation, I think I would decide that menstruation and ovulation happens in the same way for all females whatever races they are, with maybe only some changes in durations. I think for long-life "human" races (like Laan), maybe something like "menstruation during 2 weeks each three months", and for elves, maybe "for half a month each year".
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Offline mathhatt

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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2006, 07:09:20 AM »
I finished the translation of the doc, it was quicker than I thought. I hope I did not make too many mistakes...

You can find it there (.doc or HTM) :
http://mathhatt.free.fr/jdr/rm/sw/docs/races_english.htm
http://mathhatt.free.fr/jdr/rm/sw/docs/races_english.doc
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Offline Cormac Doyle

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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2006, 07:59:01 AM »
Your comment on menstruation times are a little misleading.

A woman is LEAST likely to be fertile during menstruation.

Additionally, Ovulation & menstruation are INDEPENDENT, but related.

Ovulation may be triggered by a rush of hormones (frx - many "harbour wives" may get pregnant even when their calander and general physical condition might suggest otherwise, becuase their partner arrives in and this can trigger ovulation).

Menstruation is the outward face of a complex cyclical pattern that represents the progressive build-up of the receptive (and blood-rich) wall of the womb that typically cumulates at roughly "day 18" of the "average womans" biological cycle. After that point, the womb remains receptive to implantation (is maintained in that state) for a further 6-8 days before a change in hormone levels causes the lining of the womb to beging to slough-off and be lost. This typically continues for 2-3 days, at the end of which the cycle starts again and the lining starts to build up again.

For someone to "bleed" for a month at a time (as suggested above) would probably kill them if it was at comparable levels to a human.

Other Mammals organise things differently. When a Dog/wolf goes into "Heat", this represents that their womb is now at optimal condition for implatation. However, it is maintained in that state by allowing a very low, but continual loss of the old lining, that is continually replaced during oestrus. However, this fertile period is unlikely to last for very long or the animal would be come ill.

Either way - there is NO connection to the phases of the moon (the proximity in timing is co-incidental). However, the proximity of other women DOES have an effect. If several women live in close proximity, their biological cycles tend to slowly come into approximate synchronisation. Humans may not overtly notice the hormones ... but our bodies react to them anyway.

Make what you wish of that.

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Offline Kurgath

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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2006, 10:14:07 AM »
Amazing and unexpected discussion this....

Are you a Doctor or biologist Cormac?

Offline Cormac Doyle

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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2006, 11:20:19 AM »
Biologist :)

Cormac

Offline mocking bird

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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2006, 11:39:36 AM »
Interesting topic - werewolves might also be a bit confusing not to mention tides.  Hadn't thought of this before.

Quote from: Cormac Doyle
Either way - there is NO connection to the phases of the moon (the proximity in timing is co-incidental). However, the proximity of other women DOES have an effect. If several women live in close proximity, their biological cycles tend to slowly come into approximate synchronisation. Humans may not overtly notice the hormones ... but our bodies react to them anyway.

And in that group there will typically be a 'dominant' female that the cycles of the rest will adjust too hers.

Regarding the egg comment above, a human female has hundreds of thousands of them so for an immortal elf to go through them, even one a month, would be about 8000 years worth for 100,000 eggs, would still be very long.  Considering birth rates of elves (and dwarves for that matter), it could be that elves ovulate only once or twice a year (if that) while their actual sloughing process is the 'standard' week.  There are many women today with such irregular cycles.  But this can cause problems with endometreosis and osteoperosis due to hormone levels.

For the 'too many half breeds' point perhaps human hormones are dominant over elves inducing pertility?  Therefore if you want to increase the elven birth rate, have a couple humans around.

(Wife is an RN dealing with women's health - I have heard many such discussions with all sorts of gory details)

It has been suggested in various books that a dragon might have only a clutch a century.  Combining this with the dragon conception thread, I just had horrible visions of a dragon with PMS.
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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2006, 10:02:27 PM »
Biologist :)

Cormac

So you would be the first one to come to for proof why half-breeds as presented in fantasy cannot be created, right?  So far as anyone I am aware of knows, it is impossible for one species to interbreed with another; this is, in fact, one of the definitions of 'species', is it not?


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Offline Kurgath

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Re: Menstruation in SW
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2006, 05:41:26 AM »
Cormac will confirm, but from my schoolboy Biology my recollection is that interbreeding is possible provided that you have same Genus, whereas Species is the next level down in classification.

I still have the following embedded in my head from when I was 11 years old (25 years ago!):

Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species

That's why Tigers can Breed with Lions - not the same species but same Genus.