Topic: Thieves and magical traps

[Bilo]

Hey folks

I was wondering how do thieves manage vs magical traps (glyphs, symbols, etc) is it something detect traps can do or the preview of casters. personally  detect /disable traps applied to mechanical ones not magical ones.

unless I am missing something here

[Ginger McMurray]

I'd allow it but with a higher difficulty.

[technobabble66]

I’d probably go something like ^.  Increase the difficulty by a level or 3, depending on circumstances.
If you wanted to get a little hand-wavy, maybe you could do some sort of Realm check, Eg: use Empathy skill/bonus for an Essence trap (probably the majority of magical traps imho) to see if the thief maybe “feels” something odd?

But you could argue a case the thief does the physical stuff and wouldn’t have a chance of perceiving something magical.
Or maybe there’s runes/sigils on the door/chest they recognize as being real/legit magical symbols, so it’s likely magically trapped.
So it kinda depends on how *you* want it to play out as to whether you you wave a hand and manufacture a reason it either doesn’t work, does work, or works but is difficult. Personally I’d go the 3rd option. Partly because if you have a spellcaster with Detection spells, it works kinda around the other way - magic is easier to dismiss, but the physical is harder. So that seems nicely “balanced”, for me.

Also might depend on the nature of the trap - ie: does the trap need to be specifically disarmed, or does it only go off if there’s a failed attempt to open/fiddle the lock. Generally I’d guess the former, but the latter might be relevant sometimes.

[markc]

In my experience it can be very game dependent and is an area that RM can improve on.


In my game:
1) You need magic to deal with glyphs and or symbols, unless you can attack the location they are inscribed and or embedded on/in.
Does that make sense?
ie you attack the inscription on the stone floor which holds the spell effect and thus when the inscription is not complete the symbol/glyph/ward/other like this is broken. You do not deal with the spell its self unless you do so magically.
2) In general all if not most PC's designed to deal with all types of traps (mundane and magical) also have Power Perception and or some other spell/magic support to deal with magical traps.
3) Most pure arms fighter types realize that Wards/Symbols/Glyphs/Structure Wardings/Magic item enchantment options are possible and they try and find out as much as possible about the location before entering, as well as have magic items/NPC's to deal with the issue when it arises.


Does that help?
MDC


I do not use increase level by XY amount or level,  and let other skills deal with it. To me just because it is a trap does not mean detect trap skill can be used to detect it. If you define skill usage too broadly you have lots of problems.


MDC

[Bilo]

thx for the feedback

am leaning towards magical stuff beyond the scope of what a thief can do

cheers

[Majyk]

Confirmed, that was how we used to do it when I ran the group through TKA’s Shadow World module with Zorian “Egyptian” Kings and Queens within it.

Man, I enjoyed that one and its deadliness for my group!
Muwahahaha!

[markc]

The one area you may have to house rule is just how long and how Power Perception works with doing stuff. Some of the issues I remember working through are the following:
1) How long can you have Power Perception (PP) up?
2) Can you just walk around and do stuff and have PP on on the background?
3) Do you get a bonus for removing symbols/glyph/etc if you get a very good PP roll?
4) How does PP work with analyzing spells? (I have played in games where using PP will tell you the spells name and other stuff, and in other games it just tells you that it is possibly magic and maybe realm(s) if you roll very well.
5) Is it different if you are Pure Arms/Semi/Pure Spell/Hybrid/etc?
6) Does it cost Power Points to use PP? (this should be at the top of the list as it is very important as to what you do with the skill and even how players spend DP)


In general we had a time period that P works for and then you had to spend another PP to use it.


MDC

[Xaeion]

I master rolemaster since 1995. For me thieves can detect magical traps, even with a normal Detect Traps, if the character has the appropriate lore magic then he can even understand, with the right roll, what kind of trap it is. Then to disable it he has to delete the trap with magical means (or perhaps destroy the support where the trap is), usually using a magic objectò

[Ginger McMurray]

I master rolemaster since 1995. For me thieves can detect magical traps, even with a normal Detect Traps, if the character has the appropriate lore magic then he can even understand, with the right roll, what kind of trap it is. Then to disable it he has to delete the trap with magical means (or perhaps destroy the support where the trap is), usually using a magic objectò

Consider the like button clicked.

[Aspire2Hope]

Of course, a simple perception roll is all that is needed to spot a ward or glyph, unless they are magically concealed. Getting rid of magic is of course a job for a magic user or you could deliberately set off the trap from a safe distance which may or may not work

[Spectre771]

Arms Companion pg. 87 has optional rules for Detect Traps vs. Magical Traps it seems to include all the methods that have been discussed thus far.

Quick summary/paraphrasing:
Option 1 - Allow an Intuition roll modified by +3 per rank of Detect Traps to get a "gut feeling" that something isn't quite right.

Option 2 - There is no way unless the Thief has some sort of magical training with Extremely Hard Difficulty to detect the magic trap.  The PC receives a bonus per rank in Detect Traps depending on the magical training. 

Power Perception +4
Read Runes, Warding Lore, Circle, Symbol Lore +3
Divination, Staves/Wands, Channelling <sp> +2
Spell Mastery +1

Option 3 - Like Option 2 but +3 per ranks for any Magical Related skill useful in detecting magic traps.

[Hurin]

Hmmm, this makes me think of RMU, where Power Projection is only a marginally useful skill. Allowing it to be used to detect magical traps might be another way of buffing it, while also addressing this issue of how magical traps can be detected.