Topic: How does Demonic Possesion actually work?

[Malim]

Our last session our lvl 21 warrior ( resists spells as lvl 63 ) was taken "out" by demonic possesion I spell from evil mentalist lvl 5.
He failed his RR vs the lvl 8 caster and was until he can resist again a day after of no use?!
is that really how that spell is intended? The spell can be found on sorcerer base list also as lvl 2!!!!

Can someone maybe clarify how that spell game technical works?

[jdale]

Seems clear enough. Anyone can fail a RR, just like a lucky critical can kill you. The Evil spells tend to have long durations. You might need to cure it rather than waiting it out.

It's only a type I demon, right? Do your 20th level characters have any means to exorcise or repel demons? Or to dispel mentalism effects?

[Malim]

We have no dispellers in group. And that makes a lvl 2 spell work like a one shot one kill spell!!!
That is insane!

[Ginger McMurray]

Evil casters are nasty. They're supposed to be. Just look at how an evil cleric will stun you compared to a good one.

A 20th level party that can't dispel magic is in trouble in a lot of ways.

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

We have no dispellers in group. And that makes a lvl 2 spell work like a one shot one kill spell!!!
That is insane!

Would you find insane to die because of a 'A' critical resulting in a 100 roll? Considering your character resists as a level 63 against a level 8 sorcerer, the former is waaaaaaaaay likelier. For some reasons, fighters who may kill pretty much every thing and anyone with 5% chance of success always find spellcasters to be insanely powerful because of the 0.0001% probability they may do the same… And it's ever truer when, in the case of a RR, the defender rolls his own RR whereas in the case of an attack and critical rolls, the defender has no opportunity to roll anything, thus is at the mercy of the attacker's rolls!

[Malim]

A lvl 2 caster can pasify anyone with this spell with a small ammount of luck... So dragon vs 10 lvl 2 sorcerers..

[Ginger McMurray]

It's not a "small amount of luck." First she has to survive 2 rounds of prep or a 25% chance of spell failure if you use those optional rules. Then she has to roll super high. Then the dragon has to roll super low.

We had an 8th level party get insanely lucky and take down a dragon with word of stunning so it can definitely happen. That's a once in 30 years of gaming occurrence so I'd hardly call it broken. It also spiraled the campaign I to a world War because we found one of the elven rings of power in the hoard. Great fun was had by all!

[jdale]

The character isn't dead. He gets another RR tomorrow, and given the relative levels, it's nearly certain he'll make it. Can you keep him contained until then?

[Cory Magel]

A lvl 2 caster can pasify anyone with this spell with a small ammount of luck... So dragon vs 10 lvl 2 sorcerers..

I don't think it was a 'small' amount of luck.  I think it was a LOT of bad luck.

[markc]

A) Evil lists tend to be more powerful then other lists, but in general if a person fails rolls by large amounts it does not matter how high a level they are very the spell.


Note: A long time ago there was a House Rule that talked about changing they way the base rules worked in saving throws but I do not remember what they were called or where they are now. You might do a search to see if you can find the thread on the ICE Forums or at The Guild Companion.com to see if it was there (if it was not there then it might have ben in the RM Express Additions, but I do not have access to files on a old dead computer so I cannot help there).
But in general after looking at the rule, if I remember correctly it was something I did not see a need for in my game but maybe it would fit yours.


2) In general in my game spells that give effects such as possession or damage need the corresponding spells to remove that effect, so exorcism for possession or the appropriate healing spell for damage, ie Dispel Magic does not work for many spells that cause an effect but are not an ongoing magical effect, especially spells that cause an effect and then the spell part goes away.
In the case of possession spells, then IMHO the spell opens up the target to possession and then the spell (magic) part goes away so Dispel Magic would not work. But you game may be different.
How you rule on this issue could have a huge impact on your game and may require you to classify different types of possession (ie those induced by spell, by magical creature with a spell and by creature with an magic ability or a creature with a non-magic possession ability.


In general (again sorry) level is a good indicator of a lot of things but it is not the end all be all in my game and their are limits to the phrase "But I am 20+ levels higher so it should work this way because my high level makes me special".


If this is a problem for you I would talk to your players and find a rule that works for you and them and test it out to see what changes it has in your game.


MDC     

[brole]

Our last session our lvl 21 warrior ( resists spells as lvl 63 ) was taken "out" by demonic possesion I spell from evil mentalist lvl 5.
He failed his RR vs the lvl 8 caster and was until he can resist again a day after of no use?!
is that really how that spell is intended? The spell can be found on sorcerer base list also as lvl 2!!!!

Can someone maybe clarify how that spell game technical works?

Interestingly the Sorcerer version of the same name is actually different because it is worded differently.

It allows a RR "every other round" as opposed to the subject spell of a RR once a day, and the demon is simply random rather than the nasty traits spelled out on the level 5 Mind Domination version. So the level 2 Sorcerer version is less potent.

----------------
This type of thing allows a GM alot of options how to play this.

You could nominate one of the type I demons in C&T as the possessing entity.
This could be used to flavour the telltale signs of possession that the character displays and the actions it forces the character to perform.

Also you could rule that a demon who takes possession will take damage proportional to their host.
This ruling would mean the demon would not want to force the character into suicidal or excessively damaging actions.

[Malim]

Not dead.. well he in the combat he might as well be and isn't there a chance he will attack friends too? So it even more dangerous then if he was dead

[jdale]

Yep. Sounds pretty interesting.

Since the demon is "random", I don't think it will necessarily side with the caster. Maybe attack the closest target or a random target. Depending on how things look for the caster, this would be a great opportunity for them to make an escape during the ensuing confusion. Since the caster is 13 levels lower, I'm guessing things don't look so great for them.

[Ginger McMurray]

An NPC was possessed in the last session. I had them wander out of the fight and start prying small pieces of stone out of the wall to eat. That was simply the first thing that came to mind. That way the player isn't out of the game even though the character is.

My advice is to go crazy with it. Homicidal mania is dull.

[Malim]

Again... a lvl 2 spell range 100 that has bigger chance to take out a target then a longbow and a E crit!!!

[markc]

In my game there are repercussions to casting such spells, I know it is not in the book but in my game I feel their needs to be some balancing factor to demonic possession (even possession in general by good entities) and it is not just 2 or 5 power points and a smile.


Having said that spells failure of about 5% is normal in RM unlike other games and I generally like it that way.
I do understand people coming from other systems can have issues with it but in general I have had good GM's and players and they have not abused this issue.


MDC   

[Ginger McMurray]

Having said that spells failure of about 5% is normal in RM unlike other games and I generally like it that way.
I do understand people coming from other systems can have issues with it but in general I have had good GM's and players and they have not abused this issue. 

D&D always fails a saving throw on a 1. A 1,125th level fighter can be disintegrated by a 13th level wizard.

[Hurin]

I guess I'm still not quite sure if the problem is:

--That a level 63 equivalent character failed a save vs. a level 5 character. I believe the target would have gotten a +73 for trying to resist the spell as a level 63 character? That's a pretty big advantage. But nothing is certain in Rolemaster, and that's the way I like it, personally. And of course there are other spells (Sleep, Confusion, etc.) that are even lower level that could have taken the character out too.

--That the spell took the character out for days. That does seem very powerful; Sleep or Confusion don't last that long. So I can understand that to some extent, though as other posters have said, Evil spells are meant to be more powerful.

[PiXeL01]

I cannot understand the problem either. The spell requires two exceptional rolls, one great by the bad guy, one bad by the good guy. With attacks it’s the same though the good rolls fall entirely on the attacker.

On the bright side the character isn’t dead. He’ll shake the effect the very next day unless you keep rolling bad. With a great attack you’re dead for good unless there’s a Cleric with life giving around.

[Ginger McMurray]

On the bright side the character isn’t dead. He’ll shake the effect the very next day unless you keep rolling bad. With a great attack you’re dead for good unless there’s a Cleric with life giving around.

I'd say at 21st level that's a given, but they also didn't have anyone who can dispel.