Topic: stun relief spells how they work ?

[mrfantastic]

hi all guys, i would ask some clarification on stun relief spells, since i have a point of view different from a friend of mine.
Assume a pg has 3 round of stun and cast stun relief 2, my point of view is the following: i break the round in how i cast stun relief and act at 50% even making an attack at -50 since its an istantaneous spell. At the biginning of the second round i'm still stunned since it was 3 rnd and i relieved only 2. Then at the start of 3rd round im free to act. i'm i correct ??

[Hurin]

I don't think so. In RM2 at least, the Stun Relief spell's effect is that 'Target is relieved of 1 round's worth of accumulated stun effects.' (italics mine). This means that if you cast it on round 1, you eliminate the stun that would take effect on round 3, but you are still stunned for rounds 1 and 2.

If you cast the same spell again on round 2, it would eliminate the effect for round 2, but still take 75% of your action (or 50% if you use the optional rule in Spell Law 6.2, Casting Time, that reduces instantaneous spell casting times to 50% from 75%). You would be free to act (unstunned) with 25% (or 50%) activity on round 2, and 100% activity on round 3.

Note that you can cast the spell while stunned because it is an 'S' class spell. However, you remain stunned in the round you cast if you have more than 1 round of accumulated stun. See the rules for 'Stun Relief and Awakening Spells' in RM2 Spell Law section 11.1, Special Notes.

[KPadish]

I'm not sure if I agree.  There are many films in which the hero manages to shake off the effects of stun just long enough to pull that lever or shoot that villain and then he/she reverts to being stunned.  I guess it depends on how powerful you want to make the spell.

[Hurin]

You could certainly make it work that way, but to me the inclusion of the word 'accumulated' suggests the intent was to remove the last round of effect rather than the first.

[Ginger McMurray]

We've always had it remove the last round of stun and work it's way forward. We also use the 200-point initiative system and allow instantaneous spells every 50 points. So if you start the round with three rounds of accumulated stun you could Stun Relief I at 200, 150, and 100. You could then make an attack at 99. Assuming you don't get smacked around during that time.

[Majyk]

Yup, I’ve done it from the end, too.
No heroics if Stun-Locked! 

RMSS had combat melee actions take a minimum of 60%+ of % Activity in a round, so no attacks while Stunned.
RMC seems to allow 50% melee attacks and I’ve seen a GM actually have his baddies attack while they’re stunned - something different than other games and makes baddies waiting for a lucky OE High roll!
It hasn’t happened yet but stay tuned! 

That said - like Hurin mentioned - if your GM can be convinced to house rule it, kewl for you.

[Spectre771]

We've handled it like Stunned Maneuver.  The PC uses Stunned Man. to get an action in the round for which he is currently stunned, but still has remaining stun for the following rounds and will have to attempt Stunned Man again to deal with the remaining rounds.  Which is similar to KPadish:

I'm not sure if I agree.  There are many films in which the hero manages to shake off the effects of stun just long enough to pull that lever or shoot that villain and then he/she reverts to being stunned.  I guess it depends on how powerful you want to make the spell.

If the PC has 3 rounds of Stun and casts Stun Relief 2, he gets a partial action in the round in which it's cast, but will be stunned in the next round as he still has to deal with 1 more round of stun.  The caster would not get two rounds of action and then stunned in the 3rd round.  If the stun is only taken off the back end, the spell caster is better off taking Stunned Maneuver so he can at least attempt a partial action in the current round, which may be enough to fall out of danger, or to pull that lever.

[Hurin]

I actually think you get more action in the end if you take the stun off the end of it. Here are your actions in the two ways of doing a Stun Relief I spell (F= full, P=partial, S=stunned/none):

Do as Spectre and KPadish do it:
Round 1, 2, 3:
P, S, S

Do as I do it:
Round 1, 2, 3:
S, S, F

As you can see, you get more action if you take the stun off the end rather than off the current round. This is because if you take it off the current round, your activity for the current round is restricted by the % you had to use to cast the spell. So you get one partial round of action right now (25% if you use the core rules, 50% if you use the option that instant spells only cost 50% action) vs. getting a full round later.

Either way works, I just prefer the latter, especially in RMU (where there is no more Stunned Maneuvering, so the stun relief is clearly superior). You might say that a partial round of activity now is better than a full round later, so I could see either being argued as the most beneficial for players. But I think the intent was the latter.

[Spectre771]

I actually think you get more action in the end if you take the stun off the end of it. Here are your actions in the two ways of doing a Stun Relief I spell (F= full, P=partial, S=stunned/none):

Do as Spectre and KPadish do it:
Round 1, 2, 3:
P, S, S

Do as I do it:
Round 1, 2, 3:
S, S, F

Correction:

Spectre: Round 1 -2 -3
P,S,F  <- Stun Relief II eliminates 2 rounds of stun and leaves 1 more round.  This makes Stun Relief II more powerful than Stunned Man and worth the expenditure of PP.  Otherwise, I'd take my chances with Stunned Man (-30 for 3 rounds of stun) and maybe I get partial action, don't use up PP, don't get a spell failure possibility.  If I'm going to be stunned for round 1 and round 2 anyway, save the PP.

In either method (Spectre or Hurin), Round 2 is the key.  Try Stunned Man again with lower penalty and save the PP, or do a Stun Relief I.

[Spectre771]

Correction to the correction

Forget what I said earlier...  I will have to agree with Hurin.  The total rounds of stun just get lowered.  Target/Caster is still stunned during the round the spell is cast.  I guess we always treated Stun Relief the same way Stunned Man works, but since the spell listing states "accumulated" and not "current round", I'm going to go out on a limb and just say "we were doing it wrong all those years ago."  :/

For the OP:

Which Stun Relief spell are you referring to?  I don't see Stun Relief II listed anywhere, only Stun Relief I, III, V in Spell Law.  Is it in another Companion?

Spell Law pg 42. Concussion's Ways  pg. 123 Concussion Mastery:  Stun Relief is cast on a target and states "Target is relieved of...".  Range = Touch. For this instance, I would say the stun is removed from the total amount accumulated, but the target remains stunned during the round it is cast and has to deal with the remaining rounds.

Spell Law pg. 53 Surface Ways, pg. 92 Body Renewal,  pg. 106 Damage Resistance: Stun Relief is cast on self.  Range = Self.  The spells states "Caster is relieved of..."