Author Topic: Speed or initiative tables?  (Read 2433 times)

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Offline Siggy

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Speed or initiative tables?
« on: November 05, 2018, 08:01:48 AM »
I started playing with a new GM that wanted to use the rules from RoleMaster(which I had never heard of). He didnt have the tables with him and is trying to get them from his old group. I have been able to deduce that he must have played the RMSS with his last group because instead of using rounds he used an ongoing initiative timeline instead of rounds. Ex:
I rolled 13 initiative, as my 1st action I draw my battle axe which takes 10 (initiative points?) So I resume my turn at 23. At 23 I choose to run across the room to engage an enemy. I choose to swing my weapon while I'm running accross the room so I need to make a dexterity check to make sure I can run and swing at the same time. This action will take me 30. So at 53 I get to roll my attack and damage, if the target is still there and alive. The target gets engaged by another member of our party and has his back to me to I am able to land my attack to finish off one of the bandits. I now turn to engage the next bandit, costing me 5 so I start my swing at 58. (This is where we saw the need to get the actual tables) in the 30 it will now take me to swing at the next bandit, our cleric has time to cast 3 spells, the bandit has been hit twice by the rougue and has run to the exit of the cavern.... I now feel like the only time I have a chance to hit someone is when they are distracted or stunned.

I love the concept of a fluid more realistic battle environment but we obviously didn't have the correct amount of time it took to perform various actions. Can anyone help me find these tables? Or at least point me in the right direction?

Offline eskla

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Re: Speed or initiative tables?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2018, 09:53:08 AM »
I don't have much experience with it, but I believe that what you are describing is from RMU, not RMSS.  RMSS and RM FRP use a turn system of snap/normal/deliberate actions, and initiative is used only to resolve ties (for instance if two individuals are both attacking in the same phase).  In RMSS/FRP, no table is needed for initiative or turn order.

Offline Hurin

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Re: Speed or initiative tables?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2018, 10:01:38 AM »
It might also be RM2. The various Companions to RM2 introduced several different initiative systems, some of which sound like what your GM was using.
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

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Offline Nightblade42

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Re: Speed or initiative tables?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2018, 09:40:09 PM »
It might also be RM2. The various Companions to RM2 introduced several different initiative systems, some of which sound like what your GM was using.

Yeah, that reminds me of the 200 Point Initiative System from RoCoI (section 6.7) - but the point numbers are different…  Rolling 13 for initiative seems really low to me; even under other Initiative systems I remember from RM2.

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Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: Speed or initiative tables?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2018, 07:53:05 AM »
It sounds like your GM is using a (very slight) variant of the AP system in RoCo. IV, the only difference being the initiative roll (none in the AP system). Otherwise, if your GM is always using the minimum AP cost rather than the normal rule of AP reduction due to stats (which is, I admit, rather cumbersome), an attack with a battle axe would cost 29 APs (close to the 30 you mentioned) and since a class I spell has an AP of 10 and a dagger an AP of 15, it fits with your "in the 30 it will now take me to swing at the next bandit, our cleric has time to cast 3 spells, the bandit has been hit twice by the rougue (sic.)" sentence.
Oh, and 30 APs is the cost of a 3/4 RM movement rate, so it allowed the bandit to "run to the exit of the cavern."

To be honest, the system is quite good, as it allows small, fast weapons to be, indeed, swung more often so one has the tactic to use them or slow but powerful weapons but it has the problem of having not been developed enough to include all kinds of manoeuvres and weapons.

Be afraid (very afraid!) of instantaneous spells really being instantaneous though, with their 1 AP cost!!
The world was then consumed by darkness, and mankind was devoured alive and cast into hell, led by a jubilant 紗羽. She rejoiced in being able to continue serving the gods, thus perpetuating her travels across worlds to destroy them. She looked at her doll and, remembering their promises, told her: "You see, my dear, we succeeded! We've become legends! We've become villains! We've become witches!" She then laughed with a joyful, childlike laughter, just as she kept doing for all of eternity.

Offline Siggy

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Re: Speed or initiative tables?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2018, 05:01:21 PM »
Thanks for all your replies, I will look into these other systems. Any idea if we will need to adjust weapon damage using this system? He is planning on using this type of initiative system using D&D 5e weapons and abilities.

Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: Speed or initiative tables?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2018, 05:11:38 PM »
The AP system is an initiative system independent of weapon damage or spell effect. Only matters the kind of weapons (usually, small = fast whereas huge and heavy = slow) and how proficient one is with a given spell (the spell "class") so you may use it with any combat system, really.
The world was then consumed by darkness, and mankind was devoured alive and cast into hell, led by a jubilant 紗羽. She rejoiced in being able to continue serving the gods, thus perpetuating her travels across worlds to destroy them. She looked at her doll and, remembering their promises, told her: "You see, my dear, we succeeded! We've become legends! We've become villains! We've become witches!" She then laughed with a joyful, childlike laughter, just as she kept doing for all of eternity.

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Speed or initiative tables?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2018, 11:08:48 PM »
RM2 had a second-by-second system (CEATS?) published somewhere at some point.  I think it was Joel Lovell that created that...? Maybe...?
We used RMSS and adapted a new version of that to it.  I've been working on a more robust system like this for RMSS on and off myself.
I absolutely love this level of detail in combat and it doesn't slow things down much so long as your players aren't easily distracted.
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Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: Speed or initiative tables?
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2018, 05:29:25 AM »
RM2 had a second-by-second system (CEATS?) published somewhere at some point.  I think it was Joel Lovell that created that...? Maybe...?
You have a second-by-second tactical combat system in the RoCo. VI (chapter 3.1, p16). No names given though.
The world was then consumed by darkness, and mankind was devoured alive and cast into hell, led by a jubilant 紗羽. She rejoiced in being able to continue serving the gods, thus perpetuating her travels across worlds to destroy them. She looked at her doll and, remembering their promises, told her: "You see, my dear, we succeeded! We've become legends! We've become villains! We've become witches!" She then laughed with a joyful, childlike laughter, just as she kept doing for all of eternity.

Offline Majyk

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Re: Speed or initiative tables?
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2018, 04:57:36 AM »
Like Cory, I mod’d CEATS and Second-by-second Init from the RoCos as well.
So robust and really accounts for the old D&D Weapon Speeds nobody but hardcore gamers were using back in the day.

Love that kinda crunch and flow it allowed, so Two-handed Hammer folks weren’t swinging at the same frequency as Dagger wielders...

One rule I added, and later on in reading the rules fully it might have actually been thought of, was to allow a kind of minimum “rest” period that Instantaneous Spells had IIRC but for melee combat:
After smashing a previous foe to a pulp, one was able to get a reprieve from counting their whole swing Init cost a set 5 seconds seconds upon “meeting” a new opponent.
(We called this a kinda blood lust / adrenaline Init bonus and it allowed a more Cinematic sweeping blade cutting enemies down left and right effect)
One couldn’t just change foes surrounding them to get this reduction in Init cost for their latest swing, they had to drop a previous foe targeted.

Anyways, agreed with those above that it sounds like RoCo Init systems - of which there were plenty!  :o

Welcome to RM, and enjoy the deadliness and realism!

Offline Lawrence of Nigeria

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Re: Speed or initiative tables?
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2019, 03:21:05 PM »
So, I know I'm posting on an already old (but great thread)... I've seen CEATS referred to in this thread and elsewhere. I will admit that I totally suck at acronyms, so, could someone please tell me what CEATS stands for? And in which Companion do I find it detailed?

Many thanks for the assistance.
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Offline Lawrence of Nigeria

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Re: Speed or initiative tables?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2019, 03:41:48 AM »
Thank you so much for that! Greatly appreciated!
Putney says the Borman Six girl is got ta have soul!