Topic: So..

[jdale]

I don't make these decisions, but I would think ICE would want to release anything like this around the time RMU is released, with rules that match. It would be possible to get the creature stats from CrL at that point, so you could just put in a placeholder for those stats.

[Nightblade42]

I like the contest idea, though that might intimidate some people who might have great ideas. Some people don't like to enter contests.

CrL would be important, especially for any pseudo-fantasy historical settings (Sphinxes in Egypt for example).  Leaving blocks empty would work until CrL is complete (or at least closer to completion, i guess).

Nightblade ->--

[Peter R]

Waiting for RMU to launch next year, or even 2020 works for me as it gives me time to clear the decks a bit more.

The Grey Ghost/FUDGE competition was very low pressure, you don't even have to share your game publicly and you are only competing for a certificate you have to print yourself if you wanted it.

[Nightblade42]

That being said, I just finished detailing nineteen NPCs (plus four less detailed minions) for my Beisash Way Station Starter Pack idea (tied to my fantasy world of Nytheun).  I have to say that jDale's RMU NPC Generator for Insperation Pad Pro 3 made the workflow so much quicker.  I was even able to convert the randomly generated NPC stats to RM2 stats (which is the system my Nytheun has been built upon). 

The process would be even easier for a RMU setting book - i.e. I wouldn't be converting the stats to RM2 (though I might include them & RMSS/RMFRP stats so that the setting is backwards compatible).  Again, I have a few ideas already for settings books - my Pseudo-Pulp setting being the top of the list.

This whole conversation has my creative juices flowing and my whole being stoked. 

Nightblade ->--

p.s. I should really come up with a better name for that Pseudo-Pulp setting… 

[Peter R]

This whole conversation has my creative juices flowing and my whole being stoked. 

Nightblade ->--

p.s. I should really come up with a better name for that Pseudo-Pulp setting… 

I understand that. I spend more time in game design groups when I am actually working on a game than I do between games. It is as if all the talk about game ideas gives a creative buzz. It is also somewhere where when you have had a cool idea you can tell everyone about it and they will understand what you mean, you don't have to explain what an RPG is first. You can also chip in when other people have ideas or problems and ask questions when you want advice.

My current project started a debate about pseudo science in RPGs. Some people loved the idea of a scientific basis behind magic and some people, those with the strongest backgrounds in the sciences just found it irritating. I ended up running each individual assertion past a physicist for them to approve or veto. It was kind of cool. There is enough physics hinted at that you can almost fill in the blanks yourself. Most of the physics phrases sound suitably hazy anyway that you really don't need to understand them to get that this is magic. 

[Nightblade42]

That's very  , Peter.  I've always been a little fascinated by the Science/Magic dynamic.  Shadow World does a good job of mixing the two, so did Monte Cook's Dark Space.  And if you've ever read RoCoVI, that was pretty much the whole point of the book: mixing Sci-Fi and Fantasy.  Going that extra step & getting/using science terminology gives it that extra sense of realism.

Nightblade ->--

[Peter R]

Something else we would need in the proposal is a definition of how close to RAW we have to stay.

Can we define our own tables for oriental weapons or in a game inspired by Redwall Manor have PCs as mice and villainous rats and weasels can we have rodent PC races?

If we are pitching a game at 6-8year old players then you are unlikely to use RAW critical tables. Don't laugh but I have been playing the the idea of a RolemasterKids for a few years now.

[Peter R]

Purely for illustrative purposes I have completed my NaGaDeMon game. In total I think this took about 6 days work to go from start to finish. If we went down the month long competition proposal route then I expect most games to be no more polished than this. http://bit.ly/RaisingAzazel-ICE

[Nightblade42]

I'm not laughing.  An RM-Kids game is a great idea!

You're right about RAW rules & how much we can modify them.  That's important given that RMU is built around fantasy & the settings we've talked about aren't necessarily fantasy.

Nightblade ->--

[Hurin]

If we are intending these adventures to be essentially community-made starter packs, then I would say we should keep them as close to RAW as possible, so as not to confuse new players. While keeping them close to RAW is a significant limitation, I think everyone here is creative enough to be able to work within that limitation.

[Peter R]

If we are intending these adventures to be essentially community-made starter packs, then I would say we should keep them as close to RAW as possible, so as not to confuse new players. While keeping them close to RAW is a significant limitation, I think everyone here is creative enough to be able to work within that limitation.

I don't really see it as creating 'adventures' but complete games using RMU core mechanics. So standalone games 'powered by Rolemaster' would be the best description. Of course if we knew what we were allowed to swap out for our own then you can put that in the games synopsis such as "This game uses the core Rolemaster game system but with the critical tables replaced with more age appropriate descriptions."

I could see a simple game aimed at competing against Hero Kids coming in at just 30 or 50 pages but a detailed fantasy greek game could go to hundreds of pages. A Kung Fu game would be in the middle somewhere.

[Hurin]

Ok, I think we are talking about two separate ideas then:

--I was originally thinking of a basic adventure for RMU that could serve as a starter adventure for the new system. If we could get ICE support we might be able to include some basic things like a few attack tables from the new system, so that these would be ready-to-play starter packs, of the sort that you've been saying RMU could use.

--I think you're thinking here about something a little different, namely, customized RMU rulesets or adventures with some customized rules that adapt RMU to different settings.

I think these are both good ideas. I just think that the first idea is the more pressing one, for me at least, since I don't think RMU has an introductory adventure yet.

[intothatdarkness]

I agree regarding a RAW starter adventure. In terms of additional things using the game engine...that's another story.

[Spectre771]

--I was originally thinking of a basic adventure for RMU that could serve as a starter adventure for the new system. If we could get ICE support we might be able to include some basic things like a few attack tables from the new system, so that these would be ready-to-play starter packs, of the sort that you've been saying RMU could use.

This seems to be the best route to take.  Whatever starter adventure materializes it has to be RAW.  We can't release an adventure for brand new folks and say "Here's this new game system we want you to try.  Here's an adventure to kick it off, but forget what we have in the ruleset.  Our play testers house-ruled A, C, D, and part of F.  So you can house-rule those too, but we are still printing the core system as RAW."

We have to showcase the RAW and how it works.  If the players want to tweak later, OK.

We had a similar thread to this a while back with regards to 3-4 PCs representing the base professions, 4-5 weapon tables for the weapons those pre-gens would be carrying.  (I recall there was a debate on the Spear being included, then needing to include the Staff attack table too.)  If we combine all of these great ideas into something that can be presented to ICE, I think we're on to something.

Starter adventure for RAW
4-5 Pre-gen PCs  (Melee-type, Thiefly-type, Ranged-type, Pure Spell user, Semi-spell)
Stats for the Pre-gens at level 1 and at level 5
Weapon tables for Sword, dagger, bow, spear/staff
Crit tables for those weapons

We're looking at maybe a dozen pages and we have something we can really push out to players to let them sink their teeth into the game.  Heck, I'd love to have that NOW as a beta tester!  Cut back all the pages of details, rules, tables, and produce a "Quick Start" and let the players dig deeper into the system.

[Nightblade42]

A quickstart adventure is certainly a must for RMU.  Make it a free PDF download & put just enough RAW in to make it playable but keep hinting at what else the system can do given the full RAW.

As for the multi-settings ideas Peter & I (& others, really) have been discussing: they would have to be long-term projects, IMHO.  Things that would come after the release of RMU - once it has found stable footing in the vast RPG market.  I'm still really interested in developing my pseudo-pulp setting (again, I need a better name for it!); but it wouldn't be as important as a RMU Specific Quickstarter.

I still think the Quickstarter should take place in Shadow World - perhaps revolve around the Green Gryphon Inn (so that module might be one of the first "upsell" purchases beyond the RMU Core).  I really think ICE should be pushing the setting it has been developing already, instead of having to build a whole new setting just for RMU.  I'm sure Terry wouldn't mind the extra marketing of SW in this regard.

Just more of my thoughts…

Nightblade ->--

[Implementor]

Interesting thread. Looks like many of you have thought about this a lot. Couple things:

"If we are pitching a game at 6-8 year old players then you are unlikely to use RAW critical tables. Don't laugh but I have been playing the the idea of a RolemasterKids for a few years now."

- Don't dumb down the kids. The critical tables are one of the main selling points. 6-8 year-olds are a lot more sophisticated than people understand. 21st century people seem to see them as having to be protected from knowledge. RM-normal is fine.


"I still think the Quickstarter should take place in Shadow World - perhaps revolve around the Green Gryphon Inn (so that module might be one of the first "upsell" purchases beyond the RMU Core).  I really think ICE should be pushing the setting it has been developing already, instead of having to build a whole new setting just for RMU."

- I completely agree about pushing the setting.
 

[Witchking20k]

The irony of the possibility of RMU being launched without actually being launched is not lost on me.  But, it has been what? Five years?

[MrApollinax]

I also agree about the starter pack being based in Shadow World, which already has a devoted following. There was some effort being made toward a crowd-sourced adventure, and a group had been formed to do so, but unfortunately it seems to have ground to a halt.

On a personal level, I would be ecstatic if given the opportunity to create and release material for my New Kingdoms setting (now 26 years old and still going strong), using an RMU engine. I'm working towards releasing some OGL material for it in any case, and am releasing content via my blog, but it was conceived and developed for RM. I'd probably do multi-statted releases for OGL and RMU if such were possible.

[Peter R]

We have three ideas going on in here.
1. Starter adventures for RMU. I agree that these should be RAW. You cannot do anything else.

2. The quickstart, right now that is an industry standard. Setting it is SW and around the Green Griffin makes a lot of sense.

3. The 'powered by' games. I think these should certainly not be constrained by RAW. The idea is that the core system is being modded to fit the games setting and reach new audiences.

There was a drive to create an adventure path and that is the one that seems to have stalled.

BHanson, Edgcltd and I have plans put out a few system neutral adventure paths next year but they will not include any RM stats. They are a follow on from our 50 adventure hooks we released this year.

[Spectre771]

The ideas and the generally accepted "facts" are really flowing now.  it would be awesome if we saw them get picked up and implemented. 

Shadow World setting, yes... Green Gryphon Inn... Absolutely!  It's one of the more recent releases, it's brilliantly done.  I'm currently running two separate campaigns out of Gryphonburg, a set of level 5 PCs and a set of level 2 PCs who had started at level 1.  The campaigns are taking place at the same time and the two parties sometimes cross paths and the events and results of one group's adventures impact the other's experience and it's working well.  The GGI setting is ideal for low level PCs starting out and higher level PCs with some meat on their bones., there are different adventures included and plenty of NPC's to add colour to the city.


@Nightblade42   PulpMaster!!!  Come on.  It works.  You know it!

@MrApollinax  If we are thinking of the same crowd sourced adventure, it's starting to pick up again..... and if we're not talking about the same project, then there is a crowd sourced adventure that's starting to pick up again. LOL

@Implementor  Rolemaster-Kids is a brilliant idea.  The D&D series is easily more kid-friendly and easier for them to pick up than the complexities of RM (any flavor).  A much simpler version of the game for a younger group of kids is excellent.  As they get older, they can start to get the standard books and start to adopt the more advanced rule set.