Topic: Do you use any weapon mastery abilities for weapon skills beyond rank 10?

[Druss_the_Legend]

Do you use any weapon mastery abilities for weapon skills beyond rank 10?

[markc]

You might want to give a system, book and or page reference for people.


In RMSS game I use the MAC but I do not automatically give the player the special abilities listed for the various styles. Instead; I generally give them one at rank 10 or allow the to pick one or have the decide upon the special ability they are working for and give them that ability at later ranks.  Note I generally do not use Chi skill/Chi Powers but I also ahve at times restricted the chi abilities to specific professions, styles and or regions on the game map.
MDC

[Druss_the_Legend]

You might want to give a system, book and or page reference for people.


In RMSS game I use the MAC but I do not automatically give the player the special abilities listed for the various styles. Instead; I generally give them one at rank 10 or allow the to pick one or have the decide upon the special ability they are working for and give them that ability at later ranks.  Note I generally do not use Chi skill/Chi Powers but I also ahve at times restricted the chi abilities to specific professions, styles and or regions on the game map.
MDC

kk cheers. im not to up to speed with the correct abbreviations but im guessing RMSS is standard system?
so you give them a single rank in the weapon ability and from there they develop it similar to a spell list? when they make their roll they have it permanently?
i was thinking of giving them a static action roll modified by their applicable stat each time they attempted to use the skill (eventually it would become automatic with invested dev points) but i can see that this might to too slow to develop and hard for them to implement during gameplay making them question the value of their investment.

[markc]

No, the RMSS book Martial Arts Companion (MAC), has rules to create a weapon/melee style's. those styles do things like modify init, increase cit range, extra crits, position mods, etc. Also most of the styles give a special ability as most styles are from historical sources. So a style may have listed the ability "Snake rising from the Grass" which does X. In the book you get that ability for free when you learn the style, in my game you are basically training in the style to rank 10 and then the advanced training gives you the special ability. To me this makes sense as why would the style teach some of their most secret knowledge to beginner's.


I think Cory Magel on the ICE boards here was working on a home brew combat system that developed weapon skills like spell lists. I do not know if he finished it or if he wants to distribute it publicly but you can PM him to find out.
MDC

 

[Neee-Wom]

I reduce Fumble range with weapon in 1 at 11, 21, 31, ... ranks

[Druss_the_Legend]

thanks guys, some good info posted here.

[Druss_the_Legend]

i am going to allow pcs the option to develop a combo action with a weapon at skill rank10 or higher.

essentially this will be a free action which can be used in combat in addition to their normal attack.

many different actions are possible. reverse strike, tumble attack, tumble evasion, shield bash, weapon brawling etc.

I want to give players some more tactical options and a chance to develop a style of combat unique to them.

I am still developing the mechanics around this but essentially it will work like two-weapon combo except the cost for developing the skill will be the weapon cost plus the skill being used. For example 1/3 + 1/5 = 2/8.

Options might include a full parry following by a rear attack, or acrobatics combined with martial arts or shield bash combined with a normal attack, that sort of thing.

[Druss_the_Legend]

I am retooling this idea for my campaign. i really want to give players an incentive to keep developing skill ranks beyond 15 ranks.

each weapon type will have a selection of abilities to pick from. these will be things like increased range for bows and thrown, aiming bonus, reduced fumble, bonus to initiative/first strike, improved disarming skill etc.

players will be able to make picks for each weapon at each incremental skill rank.

does anyone else do anything similar or have any suggestions for suitable weapon abilities?

[jdale]

In RMSS game I use the MAC but I do not automatically give the player the special abilities listed for the various styles. Instead; I generally give them one at rank 10 or allow the to pick one or have the decide upon the special ability they are working for and give them that ability at later ranks.

We don't do this, but I think it has some advantages. The system as defined pushes characters to make all their choices about fighting style etc right from level 1 and never change. You never get new tricks, and if you do their skill bonuses lag so much they are of limited use. Spreading out those benefits over time helps the character learn how to use the options and gives them new things to play with along the way.

[tbigness]

I allow fighters to use the Martial Arts Attack chart found in Arms Law for multiple attacks on an opponent, or Multiple opponents. The must have the minimum ranks in the weapon skill and all negatives apply. This gives fighter characters a boost and attacks that allow sweeps strikes to all around or 2 (max) attacks on an opponent. This works great and the penalties make players wary of abusing these additions due to how this can affect parry percentages and attack bonuses. It can make an OB of 150 who attacks 2 enemys now have to divide the parry to both and the penalty of -25 for an additional opponent and divide the attack between the 2 very scary. 150- 40(parry /2 = 20 parry each opponent) = 110 - 25 (multiple opponent penalty) = 85 / 2 (attack each opponent) = 43 OB (rounded up) to each opponent with a 20 parry to each opponent.

[Druss_the_Legend]

Sample Rules for Weapon Mastery abilities.
These are for higher skill ranks. Still tinkering with the details.
It will be possible to specialize in some of these abilities allowing each to be taken more than once. For example increasing bow range beyond 25% or reducing fumble range more than one point to lowest score of 1.

One-Handed Edged
1. Reduce fumble range by one
2. Reverse Strike (+20 OB to attacks versus opponents behind you, enemy attacks from behind gain no rear attack bonus)
3. Shield Bash (one free additional Medium Bash attack, OB is equal to DB of shield plus stat mod, can develop extra ranks as a skill at next level up)
4. Weapon Brawling (one free additional MA Rank One attack, use half skill rank bonus with the mastery weapon or MA skill whichever us highest as OB, can develop extra skill ranks as a skill at next level up)
5. Disarm actions are +20 (prerequisite is you must have the disarm skill), you can disarm multiple opponents by splitting your disarm skill, each separate disarm attempt gains +20.
6. Reposte (rapier only) The round after you full parry you my make two attacks.

One-Handed Crushing... coming soon

Two-Handed... coming soon

Bows
1. Reduce fumble range by one
2. Increase bow range by 25% (composite bow or longbow only)
3. Trick Shot. An attack at -30 can be made which deflects off a surface to hit an enemy with full cover or player creates their own trick shot with final approval by the GM.
4. Double Shot. Make two attacks versus two different opponents. Each attack has -25. (shortbow or composite bow only)
5. Reduce reload time by one round (crossbow and heavy crossbow only)
6. Rapid fire. Make two attacks every second round. (short bow, composite bow or longbow only)

Thrown... coming soon

Pole Arms... coming soon

[Druss_the_Legend]

Sample Rules for Weapon Mastery abilities.
These are for higher skill ranks. Still tinkering with the details.
It will be possible to specialize in some of these abilities allowing each to be taken more than once. For example increasing bow range beyond 25% or reducing fumble range more than one point to lowest score of 1.

One-Handed Edged
1. Reduce fumble range by one
2. Reverse Strike (+20 OB to attacks versus opponents behind you, enemy attacks from behind gain no rear attack bonus)
3. Shield Bash (one free additional Medium Bash attack, OB is equal to DB of shield plus stat mod, can develop extra ranks as a skill at next level up)
4. Weapon Brawling (one free additional MA Rank One attack, use half skill rank bonus with the mastery weapon or MA skill whichever us highest as OB, can develop extra skill ranks as a skill at next level up)
5. Disarm actions are +20 (prerequisite is you must have the disarm skill), you can disarm multiple opponents by splitting your disarm skill, each separate disarm attempt gains +20.
6. Reposte (rapier only) The round after you full parry you my make two attacks.

One-Handed Crushing... coming soon

Two-Handed... coming soon

Bows
1. Reduce fumble range by one
2. Increase bow range by 25% (composite bow or longbow only)
3. Trick Shot. An attack at -30 can be made which deflects off a surface to hit an enemy with full cover or player creates their own trick shot with final approval by the GM.
4. Double Shot. Make two attacks versus two different opponents. Each attack has -25. (shortbow or composite bow only)
5. Reduce reload time by one round (crossbow and heavy crossbow only)
6. Rapid fire. Make two attacks every second round. (short bow, composite bow or longbow only)

Thrown... coming soon

Pole Arms... coming soon

Edit: One-Handed Edged
5. Reposte. Rapier only. When you full parry you can attempt a reposte attack in the same round, after defending. Make a reposte static action, using half your rapier skill rank bonus + Qu/Ag stat. If you succeed you can make an attack using 50% of your offensive bonus with the rapier.
6. Disarm. +20 to disarm action (single opponent only). At next level up can develop multiple disarming skill at half skill rank bonus. This allows two opponents to be disarmed or disarming of two weapons used by a single opponent. Treat skill rank level as 2x skill rank vs enemy level.

[Druss_the_Legend]

Pole Arms
1. Reduce fumble range by one.
2. Dual Attack (one free additional sweeps and throws MA Rank One attack, use half skill rank bonus with the mastery weapon or MA skill whichever us highest as OB, can develop extra skill ranks as a skill at next level up)
3. Disarm. +20 to disarm action (single opponent only). At next level up can develop multiple disarming skill at half skill rank bonus. This allows two opponents to be disarmed or disarming of two weapons used by a single opponent. Treat skill rank level as 2x skill rank vs enemy level.
4. Double Parry. When you parry you can apply the DB to two separate attacks. You natural DB from Qu stat is still halved.
5. Unbalancing Strike. (prerequisite skill is MA Sweeps & Throws). Criticals are unbalancing. Add the skill rank of the MA skill to the critical roll. This ability can be combined with Dual Attack.

[Druss_the_Legend]

Thrown
1. Reduce fumble range by one
2. Increase thrown range by 25%
3. Double Attack. (Dagger sized weapon or smaller only). Make two thrown attacks versus same opponent or two different opponents. Each attack is at -25.
4. Triple Attack. (Dagger sized weapon or smaller only, prerequisite is Double Attack ability previously selected). Make three thrown attacks versus same different opponents. Each attack is at -25.
5. Reduce range penalty by 10 for medium and long ranges.

[Druss_the_Legend]

Two Handed
1. Reduce fumble range by one
2. Reverse Strike (+20 OB to attacks versus opponents behind you, enemy attacks from behind gain no rear attack bonus)
3. Weapon Brawling (one free additional MA Rank Two attack, use half skill rank bonus with the mastery weapon or MA skill whichever us highest as OB, can develop extra skill ranks as a skill at next level up)
4. Disarm. +20 to disarm action (single opponent only). At next level up can develop multiple disarming skill at half skill rank bonus. This allows two opponents to be disarmed or disarming of two weapons used by a single opponent. Treat skill rank level as 2x skill rank vs enemy level.
5. Shattering Blow. Deal an additional crush critical of two severities lower when a critical is delivered with this weapon.

[Druss_the_Legend]

Pole Arms
1. Reduce fumble range by one.
2. Dual Attack (one free additional sweeps and throws MA Rank One attack, use half skill rank bonus with the mastery weapon or MA skill whichever us highest as OB, can develop extra skill ranks as a skill at next level up)
3. Disarm. +20 to disarm action (single opponent only). At next level up can develop multiple disarming skill at half skill rank bonus. This allows two opponents to be disarmed or disarming of two weapons used by a single opponent. Treat skill rank level as 2x skill rank vs enemy level.
4. Double Parry. When you parry you can apply the DB to two separate attacks. You natural DB from Qu stat is still halved.
5. Unbalancing Strike. (prerequisite skill is MA Sweeps & Throws). Criticals are unbalancing. Add the skill rank of the MA skill to the critical roll. This ability can be combined with Dual Attack.

Edit:
Unbalancing Strike. Deal an additional Unbalancing critical of two severities lower when a critical is delivered with this weapon.

[Druss_the_Legend]

Bows
1. Reduce fumble range by one
2. Increase bow range by 25% (composite bow or longbow only)
3. Trick Shot. An attack at -30 can be made which deflects off a surface to hit an enemy with full cover or player creates their own trick shot with final approval by the GM.
4. Double Shot. Make two attacks versus two different opponents. Each attack has -25. (shortbow or composite bow only)
5. Reduce reload time by one round (crossbow and heavy crossbow only)
6. Rapid fire. Make two attacks every second round. (short bow, composite bow or longbow only)

Edit:
6. Rapid Fire is now replaced with...
6. Precision Shot. Add +15 to your attack for each round spent preparing. Maximum bonus of +45 (3 rounds). This modifier replaces any flank or rear attack modifier that would normally be gained for the attack. If a critical occurs from a precision strike, increase the severity by 1,2 or 3 relative to the number of rounds prepared.

[Druss_the_Legend]

OPTION #1. Use a new skill called Weapon Mastery for these weapon abilities. This simulates the practice/training that would be needed to gain these abilities. This also gives a way of staggering the abilities so that they could only be gained at every full level. Characters could spend the Development Points at half level and then not gain them until full level up.

OPTION #2. Allow automatic and free selection of one weapon ability when the characters reaches the required skill rank.

The next important consideration is at what skill rank do characters select weapon abilities?

12, 15, 18, 21, 24, 27, 30

seems about right

[Druss_the_Legend]

Revised Weapon Ability Rules

One-Handed Edged
1. Reduce fumble range by one
2. Reverse Strike (+20 OB to attacks versus opponents behind you, enemy attacks from behind gain no rear attack bonus)
3. Shield Bash (Must have a shield, one free additional Medium Bash attack, OB is equal to DB of shield plus stat mod, can develop extra ranks as a skill at next level up)
4. Weapon Brawling (one free additional MA Striking Rank One attack, use half skill rank bonus with the mastery weapon or MA skill whichever us highest as OB, can develop extra skill ranks as a skill at next level up)
5. Reposte. (Rapier only). When you full parry you can attempt a reposte attack in the same round, after defending. Make a reposte static action, using half your rapier skill rank bonus + Qu/Ag stat. If you succeed you can make an attack using 50% of your offensive bonus with the rapier.
6. Disarm. +20 to disarm action (single opponent only). At next level up can develop multiple disarming skill at half skill rank bonus. This allows two opponents to be disarmed or disarming of two weapons used by a single opponent. Treat skill rank level as 2x skill rank vs enemy level.

One-Handed Crushing
1. Reduce fumble range by one
2. Thunderous Strike. If this attack hits but is not a critical it deals double concussion hits. Versus opponents with a shield, if the Thunderous Strike misses by the DB range of the shield bonus the defender must make a check to see if the shield is dropped (treat as a disarming attack made on the shield) and then check for shield breakage.
3. Shield Bash (Must have a shield, one free additional Medium Bash attack, OB is equal to DB of shield plus stat mod, can develop extra ranks as a skill at next level up)
4. Weapon Brawling (one free additional MA Sweeps & Throws Rank One attack), use half skill rank bonus with the mastery weapon or MA skill whichever us highest as OB, can develop extra skill ranks as a skill at next level up (morning star only)
5. Shattering Blow. Deal an additional crush critical of two severities lower when a critical is delivered with this weapon.

Bows
1. Reduce fumble range by one
2. Increase bow range by 25% (composite bow or longbow only)
3. Double Shot. Make two attacks versus two different opponents. Each attack has -25. (shortbow or composite bow only)
4. Reduce reload time by one round (crossbow and heavy crossbow only)
5. Precision Shot. Add +15 to your attack for each round spent preparing. Maximum bonus of +45 (3 rounds). This modifier replaces any flank or rear attack modifier that would normally be gained for the attack. If a critical occurs from a Precision Shot, increase the severity by 1,2 or 3 relative to the number of rounds prepared.

Pole Arms
1. Reduce fumble range by one.
2. Dual Attack (one free additional sweeps and throws MA Rank One attack, use half skill rank bonus with the mastery weapon or MA skill whichever us highest as OB, can develop extra skill ranks as a skill at next level up)
3. Disarm. +20 to disarm action (single opponent only). At next level up can develop multiple disarming skill at half skill rank bonus. This allows two opponents to be disarmed or disarming of two weapons used by a single opponent. Treat skill rank level as 2x skill rank vs enemy level.
4. Double Parry. When you parry you can apply the DB to two separate attacks. You natural DB from Qu stat is still halved.
5. Unbalancing Strike. Deal an additional Unbalancing critical of two severities lower when a critical is delivered with this weapon.

Two Handed
1. Reduce fumble range by one
2. Reverse Strike (+20 OB to attacks versus opponents behind you), enemy attacks from behind gain no rear attack bonus (Two handed sword and battle-axe only)
3. Weapon Brawling (one free additional MA Rank Two attack), use half skill rank bonus with the mastery weapon or MA skill whichever us highest as OB, can develop extra skill ranks as a skill at next level up. (Flail uses Sweeps & Throws, all other two handed weapons use Striking)
4. Disarm. +20 to disarm action (single opponent only). At next level up can develop multiple disarming skill at half skill rank bonus. This allows two opponents to be disarmed or disarming of two weapons used by a single opponent. Treat skill rank level as 2x skill rank vs enemy level.
5. Shattering Blow. Deal an additional crush critical of two severities lower when a critical is delivered with this weapon.

Thrown
1. Reduce fumble range by one
2. Increase thrown range by 25%
3. Double Attack. (Dagger sized weapon or smaller only). Make two thrown attacks versus same opponent or two different opponents. Each attack is at -25.
4. Triple Attack. (Dagger sized weapon or smaller only, prerequisite is Double Attack ability previously selected). Make three thrown attacks versus same opponent or different opponents. Each attack is at 0/-20/-45 versus three opponents or -20 versus single opponent.
5. Reduce range penalty by 10 for medium and long ranges.

OPTION #1. Use a new skill called Weapon Mastery for these weapon abilities. This simulates the practice/training that would be needed to gain these abilities. This also gives a way of staggering the abilities so that they could only be gained at every full level. Characters could spend the Development Points at half level and then not gain them until full level up.

OPTION #2. Allow automatic and free selection of one weapon ability when the characters reaches the required skill rank.

Select one weapon ability at each of these skill ranks:
10, 15, 20, 25, 30

[jdale]

OPTION #1. Use a new skill called Weapon Mastery for these weapon abilities. This simulates the practice/training that would be needed to gain these abilities. This also gives a way of staggering the abilities so that they could only be gained at every full level. Characters could spend the Development Points at half level and then not gain them until full level up.

OPTION #2. Allow automatic and free selection of one weapon ability when the characters reaches the required skill rank.
Select one weapon ability at each of these skill ranks:
10, 15, 20, 25, 30

If you don't charge DP, for these abilities that in many cases replace skills, you will give a power boost to characters who develop weapon skills. That sounds good -- give them some help at a point where the mages are really getting ahead -- but in practice I think semis can develop their chosen weapon skill to the same number of ranks as the arms characters. So the real winners are the semis, who get this for free plus the advantages of their spells.

Charge DP, and the arms characters can afford to develop these, but the semis will be tighter pressed to do the same. So the net benefit is to the arms characters.


On the other hand, if it's a skill on its own, it might be kind of dissatisfying to develop the ranks where no new benefit is acquired. You have 5-6 bonuses to spread out over at least 15 levels of development, so that's one boost every 5-6 ranks. You could figure out a way to make the bonus matter (e.g. some of the abilities need a static maneuver to activate). Or follow the precedent of the combat styles in the Martial Arts Companion -- if you want to use the benefits, your OB is limited to whichever is lower of your mastery skill or your weapon skill. (The MAC is still different, since its combat styles are front loaded, you get all the benefits immediately, whereas you are spreading them out.)