Official ICE Forums
Gamer's Corner => General Discussion => Topic started by: kwickham on April 04, 2023, 10:53:19 AM
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I don't publish anything for ICE. I am just a fan.
However, I am buying the new RMU system.
What are your thoughts? Reply with your ideas, thoughts, or reasoning.
One thing that I realized later in my recent post is that the content from the Guild Companion issues is no longer available, for new releases. There is nothing to support the new game system similar to the online GC magazine. GC issues continued nearly monthly for 241 issues.
Trying to think of ways that small adventure content or rules can be released official, got me thinking about the former ICE Quarterly (1988-1991) magazine books (I think they were called) that I purchased back in the 80s.
I also see that there was a Rolemaster Quarterly from 2006 to 2007.
The time between the major volume publications is very distant.
History shows a ICE zines could be published for 2 to 3 years until interest dries up. The online version continued for decades. I am all for a new limited zine run, to support the new RMU content and even other ICE products for at least 2 years (8 issues).
That made me very interested if I was the only person who would like new chunks of RMU (or whatever currently supported game system) in a smaller regularly released format at least for a limited production run, while the new system is popular. Especially, the idea seems relevant since the GC issues ceased in 2019.
Again, I don't work for ICE. This is just to put an possible idea or ideas in front of the publishers eyes. And if there is no interest, this may be helpful as well.
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The question that immediately follows is who is going to do the work?
I would prefer the main ICE staff work on getting the core books out and early (essentially) core supplements. Magazines can take an insane amount of time.
So yeah, I voted I would buy it, but I would be unhappy if it slowed or interfered with the main content.
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Brian, Peter, and others at the Rolemaster Blog often do put out content. Peter IIRC was editor of the GC. So that might be a place to start.
I think quarterly is probably the way to go.
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To be honest I think at least 1/3 of it should be ideas aimed at drawing in new players. Given that, I'm wondering if it shouldn't be free.
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To be honest I think at least 1/3 of it should be ideas aimed at drawing in new players. Given that, I'm wondering if it shouldn't be free.
It could be free PDFs. Or it could be $3+ similar to Rolemaster Quarterly 8 issues which are still available . I'm for a paid version if that means the content would be more significant.
If they wanted, they could do both. Modern publishers and content providers support subscriber premium and free content.
In a similar way, they could always publish formated in a PDF and eventually print on demand version first for those who pay to receive it first—premium content.
Then X amount of weeks later make the raw information or select portions that they own the legal rights to or permission—appropriate stuff for new players—unformated and without images, be available on the site in a digital format.
Did those RM Quarterlies eventually made their way to the GC issues? It seems like I've seen that content in some GC issues.
The small content, rules, setting, characters, creatures, lore, spells, weapons, and other stuff that isn't for new players and isn't core to the game could support the system flowing in between major book publishes.
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What would you include to make it appeal to new players?
How would you want it to look / be formatted?
I like the idea but Nash is right, one way or another it would take some time from other ICE products (just uploading it to DrivethruRPG if nothing else). I'm sure a lot of you have heard me talk of my dream of having lots of PCs, NPCs, mini-adventures, monsters, treasures etc on the website. Maybe you don't need the $3 quarterly version, maybe a yearly round up of all of that stuff from the website into something a bit more substantial and with a couple of pieces of art for $7/$8 would be better.
That doesn't answer the question about who would do it, but that's my dream.
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I would note that Peter over at the Rolemasterblog has been publishing the Rolemasterblog Fanzine for over 4 years now with blog material as well as new content. With a few more contributors we could really buff it up, but overall I would consider that a solid, consistent publishing effort without needing any official support.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/352852/RolemasterBlog-Fanzine-Issue-48
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With a few more contributors we could really buff it up, but overall I would consider that a solid, consistent publishing effort without needing any official support.
That went from 2017 to 2021, so supported that material and before, unofficially with fan stuff. I guess it died out as well.
And I think half of those fans are all busy publishing other material for other game systems ATM.
Zines have a limited run I think to some degree, which is why 2 years might be a good estimation for a production run. Anything further might be a bonus. Just focus on 8 quarterly official beneficial topical content focused issues quarterly for 2 years, and then see where interest is.
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Why do I emphasize "official" ICE stuff.
With the IP of MERP gone, I am following the closest relative, the RM IP.
Yes, I know there are 'clones' of MERP that are not official connected to the original. I am not following any of those—I have no loyalty with those opportunistic fans. I'd rather follow the successive IP that was the source of MERP.
I am hoping that the Intellectual Property (IP) owned by the current owner grows in size and quantity. In that way, it may increase the chance of surviving for longer duration, developed further, and produce more IP until it becomes public domain in X years.
Fan stuff is fine for some, but it doesn't grow the official IP. It grows the fans IP.
One quote i saw many years ago is "ICE plans to develop its IP, either in house or through acquisition."
https://index.rpg.net/display-generalinfo.phtml?key=publisher&value=I.C.E.
RMU Core Law and RMU Spell Law publication is evidence of that statement.
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I think the publication of RMU should inject some new energy into the fanbase. You can already see it in the work on a Roll20 Character Sheet and homebrew character sheets too. So I do think there might be enough for a zine.
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I think the publication of RMU should inject some new energy into the fanbase. You can already see it in the work on a Roll20 Character Sheet and homebrew character sheets too. So I do think there might be enough for a zine.
Do we want a zine, or RM2 style companions?
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How many companion books are written and ready to be published right now?
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How many companion books are written and ready to be published right now?
None I think, ICE is working on getting the basic RMU books made and published this year, most likely along with more HARP content/PoD versions.
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Do we want a zine, or RM2 style companions?
Yes. But given the number of full time employees ICE has, that's rather beside the point isn't it?
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How many companion books are written and ready to be published right now?
If they were "ready to be published" they would be published. But, written? The answer is one.
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Do we want a zine, or RM2 style companions?
Ice has no full time employees beside the principals. All of RMU was volunteer driven as far as I know. Kudos to them. I'm really curious, as a contributor to the system, what people are looking for. Imprimatur? A lot of ICE products are "official" but not necessarily good material. Terry definitely drew a line in the and on Shadow World Canon. Should a lot of the material in Companions be considered official? Is officially ICE published material relevant despite it's quality? I see a lot of comments asking for ICE IP sanctified material. I'm all for that, but who is going to write it?
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How many companion books are written and ready to be published right now?
If they were "ready to be published" they would be published. But, written? The answer is one.
And a half a dozen, or so, that made prior RM companions might be able to tweak their prior versions into RMU versions if they want to, I assume, hopefully with only minor changes. A conversion document might help speed that along and help players do so. Even a free or PWYW issue, guide, vault-download, or whatever.
Some prior conversion stuff found in the vault.
RMSS Creatures & Monsters Conversion to HARP
Rolemaster to HARP Conversion Guide
Someone that knows RMSS, Classic RM, RMFRP, and/or HARP would maybe help future projects based on prior companion books speed along.
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I could try making more MERP Conversion stuff.
I have added my thoughts about RMU vs MERP Armor in this post.
https://ironcrown.co.uk/ICEforums/index.php?topic=18948.msg227082#msg227082
Pr0x1mus actually used MERP for RMU beta testing.
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I think a 'Zine' would be a poor use of official ICE staff's time and, if they are working on something, it should be working on official full publications.
I also think it's far more likely for a zine succeed if you have the full, base, compliment of books out first before fans start generating enough content to keep one going for more than a token few editions.
Converting old RM2/RMC and RMSS/RMFRP content might be a good place to start, but that might just become redundant with new RMU material as I would assume the goal is to largely reprise the more popular old books.
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I think a 'Zine' would be a poor use of official ICE staff's time and, if they are working on something, it should be working on official full publications.
I also think it's far more likely for a zine succeed if you have the full, base, compliment of books out first before fans start generating enough content to keep one going for more than a token few editions.
I think that the first two years of a games content existing are the two most active years of a game. After the third year, the game steam power begins to dwindle. After five, the game is dead or barely surviving.
I think that the best timing for a zine as at the end of the second year of initial production, much like RMSS. So, for RMU December of 2024.
Looking at the history, I think that RMSS historical data is more reliable than RMFRP, because RM assets were sold about two years into the production run. It took a little while to get up to production after the sale.
RMSS published two annual issues.
RMFRP published seven quarterly issues.
Which was better? RMSS supported the system during its prime. RMFRP may have used to extend the last grasps of production—seemly insignificant.
While the first years is core focused, the second years of saw the greatest flow of RM Companion books, except RMFRP which was sold at that time resulting in pushing them to the third and fourth years.
I will put in unitalicized bold the magazine issues for RMSS and RMFRP.
I am not going to verify the dates and years (which I have seen discrepancies between Goodread dates and Wikipedia dates), but rather look at the productions overall.
RM1 went for 4 years.
RM2 core and companion books went for 10 years. January 1, 1984 Arms Law & Claw Law until January 1, 1994 Sea Law
https://www.goodreads.com/series/80913-rolemaster-2nd-edition
Probably, most will agree that RM2 demand will not be replicated. So lets look at RMSS and RMFRP.
Rolemaster Standard System
Rolemaster Standard System core and companion books went for 5 years. Arms Law January 1 1994 until January 1, 1999 ... And a 10-Foot Pole
https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=rolemaster+standard+system
1994
Arms Law (Rolemaster Standard System, #5520)
1995
Spell Law (Rolemaster Standard System, #5522)
Creatures & Monsters (Rolemaster Standard System, #5540)
Gamemaster Law (Rolemaster Standard System, #5521)
Rolemaster Standard Rules (Rolemaster Standard System, #5500)
Rolemaster Player Guide (Rolemaster Standard System, #5503)
Rolemaster Character Records (Rolemaster Standard System, #5504)
Curse of Kabis (1995)
Arcane Companion (Rolemaster Standard System, #5600)(Wikipedia says 1996)
1996
Treasure Companion (Rolemaster Standard System, #5601)
Races & Cultures: Underground Races (Rolemaster Standard System, #5541)
Castles & Ruins (Rolemaster Standard System, #5542)
Talent Law (Rolemaster Standard System, #5523)
Weapon Law: Firearms (Rolemaster Standard System, #5524)
RMSS' Magazines Rolemaster Annual 1996
1997
Martial Arts Companion (Rolemaster Standard System, #5602)
Essence Companion (Rolemaster Standard System, #5603)
Black Ops (1997)
Pulp Adventures (1997)
RMSS' Magazine Rolemaster Annual 1997
1998
Channeling Companion (Rolemaster Standard System, #5604)
Mentalism Companion (Rolemaster Standard System, #5605)
Shades of Darkness (Rolemaster Standard System, #5702)
1999
...And a 10-Foot Pole
10 Million Ways To Die (1999)
Nightmares of Mine (1999)
Rolemaster Fantasy Roleplaying
RMFRP core and companion books went from Arms Law June 1, 1999 to Races & Cultures September 21, 2004, except the 7 quarterly issues at the end.
1999
Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5800)
Arms Law (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5801)
Character Law (1999)
Creatures & Monsters (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5802)
Spell Law: Of Channeling (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5803)
Spell Law: Of Essence (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5804)
Spell Law: Of Mentalism (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5805)
Gamemaster Law (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5807)
2000
Treasure Companion (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5811)
School of Hard Knocks: The Skill Companion (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5808)
Channeling Companion (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5809)
2001
Shadow World Master Atlas (2001)
December 2001 Aurigas Aldebaron buys Rolemaster assets
2002
Fire & Ice: The Elemental Companion (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5812)
The Armory (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5813) • Arms Law & Claw Law (1984, 1989)
2003
Mentalism Companion (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5814)
Construct Companion (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5815)
Arms Law (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5810)
2004
Races & Cultures (Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing, #5816)
2006
Rolemaster Quarterly #1 to #3
2007
Rolemaster Quarterly #5 to #7
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Maybe we need to define a 'zine'.
I'm thinking of The Guild Companion which was essentially unofficial.
You seem to be thinking of something officially published by ICE.
The Annual's were written by staff, while the Quarterly ones were written by freelance authors for ICE, then published by ICE.
To put it briefly, The Quarterly didn't last long because that incarnation of ICE (previous to the current one) was near it's end and it's highly likely they didn't pay the freelances that wrote them.
The Guild Companion was more 'fan' content driven.
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Maybe we need to define a 'zine'.
Call it a magazine or a zine, it don't really matter beyond semantics.
It will unlikely sell more than 1,000.
Real magazines are pretty much over or nearing their end. But a print on demand feature might satisfy those wanting physical copies.
Collins Dictionary Zine (Journalism & Publishing) informal a magazine or fanzine
ICE currently appears in the independent publishers section on DriveThruRPG.
I am using this definition of zine as 1) a small-batch, independently published work that circulates less than 1,000 copies, in practice many zines are produced in editions of fewer than 100, and 2) Zines are the product of either a single person or of a very small group.
I don't believe that an ICE PDF issues could sell much more than 100 to 500—breaking 100 would be unexpected to me—but it's possible.
They could even test out material for Rolemaster Unified 2nd edition for publication if that is the next version that will evolve in 5 years—or whatever the next will be called.
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I don't believe that an ICE PDF issues could sell much more than 100 to 500—breaking 100 would be unexpected to me—but it's possible.
Quote above should read 1,000 where i crossed it out.
Fanzines are also zines.
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Maybe we need to define a 'zine'.
Call it a magazine or a zine, it don't really matter beyond semantics.
I'm referring to the difference between material published by ICE vs an online zine, which tend to be largely fan driven.
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RMFRP really is the same ruleset as RMSS, so I don't think it makes sense to consider them separately for purposes of product lifetime.
If human resources were not an issue, it would certainly be nice to have a middle ground for publishing in between the Vault and completed books. There are lots of little ideas that deserve more attention but haven't grown into full products. Having something like the Guild Companion was a good place for them, as an incubator for writers at the very least. I don't know who would do the work though.
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How about a patron like setup where you sign up for a subscription and the number of subscribers decide how regularly the new Guild Companion will make new issues?
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At least there are some votes and comments discussing a magazine, ezine, PDF zine, fanzine, annual, quarterly, or zine—or whatever one would call such a thing.
Thanks, all for those who voted or joined in the conversation either before or after this post. Thanks, for all those for or against such a thing.
The rest is up to the powers that be to think about or ignore.
Feel free to add anything else or vote if you haven't.
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I guess I wanted to weigh in one more time. For the last 6-8 years we've been posting blogs (mine total 388), adventures (50 in 50), fanzines (48+) and other supplements (see my list) for Rolemaster and Shadow World. We did that to continue content for these properties, as a creative outlet and for our passion for the system, but throughout we also asked for some sort of acknowledgement, licensing, open source, or official recognition. Had we received that, much of our material wouldn't have been stripped of clear IP conflict, or would have been MORE "ICE" rather than d100, whether it's random, weekly, monthly or quarterly.
I'll put it out there again. I've written a lot of SW material and I'm happy to be brought into the fold as an official contributor. My brother and I are able to step up to handle SW products. We have a team at Rolemasterblog that, if officially recognized, could source, create, and produce a steady stream of product via DrivethruRPG.
With all that said, I would reiterate. We've asked for contributions to the Rolemasterblog, ICE has asked for submissions and you've raised the issue about an official "zine". For the most part, the answer is silence. In my business, we say "buyers make offers" and in this situation I would say "writers submit material".
There are a few of us that generate material and we are more than happy to continue unofficially or to be recognized and brought into the fold.
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I think there will be renewed interest in writing material now that there is a current Rolemaster line to write for.
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I think there will be renewed interest in writing material now that there is a current Rolemaster line to write for.
I would also say that, once the initial core stuff is out and the ICE staff aren't neck deep in getting that done, this could be a more useful discussion.
I would also say that, unlike the last incarnation of ICE, I'd trust the current one to actually pay people what they say they will.
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...For the last 6-8 years we've been posting... we also asked for some sort of acknowledgement, licensing, open source, or official recognition. Had we received that, much of our material ... d100, whether it's random, weekly, monthly or quarterly.
...I'll put it out there again. I've written a lot of SW material and I'm happy to be brought into the fold as an official contributor...
You've raised the issue about an official "zine". For the most part, the answer is silence. In my business, we say "buyers make offers" and in this situation I would say "writers submit material".
I'll buy SW stuff you make for RMU, if it's official—not clone stuff. ICE deserves a portion of official material, even deals they make for freelance material. And writers deserve their portion.
Respectfully, in regards to RM stuff, I'm following the IP—not so much writers, ex-writers, or freelance writers. Want full support, then 'submit' an 'offer' to buy the IP. Then follow through.
I look forward to a renewed interest in publishing official RMU material.
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I'll buy SW stuff you make for RMU, if it's official—not clone stuff. ICE deserves a portion of official material, even deals they make for freelance material. And writers deserve their portion.
Respectfully, in regards to RM stuff, I'm following the IP—not so much writers, ex-writers, or freelance writers. Want full support, then 'submit' an 'offer' to buy the IP. Then follow through.
I look forward to a renewed interest in publishing official RMU material.
You're losing out on a good amount content with that stance. There are a good number of ex-writers/freelancers and long time forum members that put out quality material.
Heck, the current ICE is made up for exactly those people. They just happen to be 'official' now.
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You're losing out on a good amount content with that stance. There are a good number of ex-writers/freelancers and long time forum members that put out quality material.
Heck, the current ICE is made up for exactly those people. They just happen to be 'official' now.
Yes, some ex-writers/freelancers put out quality material, but quality work doesn't necessarily build the RM core system up.
Monte Cook puts out quality content. His new stuff is very distant from his ICE content.
Fenlon and Charlton put out quality content after ICE. Catan has nothing to do with RM.
I'll buy stuff for RM by writers if it's official—not stuff that goes off in a different direction—and doesn't add value to the core IP.
And especially not something that goes off following or building clone games—that is one thing that is all too common that I am tired of seeing. I am a fan of a former ICE official system derived from RM that no longer exists due to license expiration. Former or opportunistic writers looking to capitalize unofficially on that void don't interest me. I'd rather see "RMU lite" replace the void officially.
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You're losing out on a good amount content with that stance. There are a good number of ex-writers/freelancers and long time forum members that put out quality material.
Heck, the current ICE is made up for exactly those people. They just happen to be 'official' now.
Monte Cook puts out quality content. His new stuff is very distant from his ICE content. Fenlon and Charlton put out quality content after ICE. Catan has nothing to do with RM.
I'll buy stuff for RM by writers if it's official—not stuff that goes off in a different direction—and doesn't add value to the core IP.
I don't really get most of what you're saying here. Why would you be looking at Monte Cook or the others? They don't create RM based material anymore.
Former or opportunistic writers looking to capitalize unofficially on that void don't interest me. I'd rather see "RMU lite" replace the void officially.
lol... opportunistic? I wonder if you mean something else by that. What are they 'capitalizing' on? I don't think anyone, even ICE themselves, is going to remotely make a substantial profit off any of this.
If ICE isn't producing enough content for you because they don't have time, and other 'unofficial' people start putting out good material for RMU (not 'some other' system) I really don't get just ignoring that stuff if it might actually benefit your games. Earlier the 'Guild Companion' was discussed. Based on your current comments you wouldn't have been using it for RMSS/RMFRP because it wasn't official.
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I don't really get most of what you're saying here. Why would you be looking at Monte Cook or the others? They don't create RM based material anymore.
Exactly. I'm not following the ex-writers/freelancers—I'm following the IP.
If ICE isn't producing enough content for you because they don't have time, and other 'unofficial' people start putting out good material for RMU (not 'some other' system) I really don't get just ignoring that stuff if it might actually benefit your games.
ICE is publishing enough RMU core books. Two books in 4 months. Roughly 1 per quarter. If they keep at that rate, then hopefully in 5 years, twenty books might be available, plus some smaller supplemental material.
If, for example, someone were to independently produce an Unofficial RMU Godly and Demonic Magic and Mayhem Spellbook, I will not be buying it.
For me, the life of the game, I believe, is roughly 5 years from December 2, 2022 based on the prior two versions for the main game material. I can wait 5 years for something.
Earlier the 'Guild Companion' was discussed. Based on your current comments you wouldn't have been using it for RMSS/RMFRP because it wasn't official.
Why use that RM example for a MERP GM? There is an even better timely and relevant example.
Looking up the names of the MERP fanzines...
Even better and more relatable to me, no, I did not and do not use Other Hands Magazine, the unofficial MERP magazine from that time period or the Other Minds Magazine the zine that followed. I did come to know of their existence at some point.
There are a host of several MERP clones that I have heard of as well that I do not use as well.
I'm sure their is great writers who wrote unofficial material in those unofficial zines and games. They take GMs in a direction other than the official stuff. That material isn't something for me.
I did buy several issues of the official ICE magazines that had MERP material mixed with RM material in the 80s. One of them had the expanded classes for MERP.
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Exactly. I'm not following the ex-writers/freelancers—I'm following the IP.
I guess if you want to limit your options and ignore good material, that's your choice. It just seems like a fairly arbitrary one.
ICE is publishing enough RMU core books. Two books in 4 months. Roughly 1 per quarter. If they keep at that rate, then hopefully in 5 years, twenty books might be available, plus some smaller supplemental material.
The current ICE? These books took years to create. You're in for some profound disappointment if you think the current ICE is going to be cranking out one book per quarter. The days of having multiple full time employees are over for ICE and along with that anything near the release schedule of the past. Ironically, if they are not, it will be because of the exact people whose material you say you don't want to use.
I can wait 5 years for something.
Considering your other posts on these forums, I find this hard to believe. ;)
Earlier the 'Guild Companion' was discussed. Based on your current comments you wouldn't have been using it for RMSS/RMFRP because it wasn't official.
Why use that RM example for a MERP GM? There is an even better timely and relevant example.
More timely? How so? MERP stopped being published 30 years ago and Other Hands more than 20 years ago. Other Minds, which is not geared towards ICE material as much as Other Hands, last had an issue around 5 years go I think? The Guild Companion was last published around 4 years ago.
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The current ICE? These books took years to create. You're in for some profound disappointment if you think the current ICE is going to be cranking out one book per quarter. The days of having multiple full time employees are over for ICE and along with that anything near the release schedule of the past. Ironically, if they are not, it will be because of the exact people whose material you say you don't want to use.
1. Core Law = published
2. Spell Law = published
3. Creature Law 1
4. Treasure Law
5. Creature Law 2 (if they are still publishing the creature creation material separate)
6. The companion book that jdale mentioned that is written.
That may be 6 already written possibly. That would be a quarter or a third of the way to 20
How many companion books are written and ready to be published right now?
If they were "ready to be published" they would be published. But, written? The answer is one.
If your companion book is near ready, then add that one—unless it's the one jdale mentioned.
Why use that RM example for a MERP GM? There is an even better timely and relevant example.
More timely? How so? MERP stopped being published 30 years ago and Other Hands more than 20 years ago. Other Minds, which is not geared towards ICE material as much as Other Hands, last had an issue around 5 years go I think? The Guild Companion was last published around 4 years ago.
My MERP GMing was from the mid 80s to the mid 90s. I heard about Other Hands during the 90s when I was GMing it and came across the name at some point in college/university. So, I could have used that material, but I didn't. All that is before GC or the later Other Minds.
I did not do any gaming in the 00s until mid 2010s, except for MMORPGs.
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The current ICE? These books took years to create. You're in for some profound disappointment if you think the current ICE is going to be cranking out one book per quarter. The days of having multiple full time employees are over for ICE and along with that anything near the release schedule of the past. Ironically, if they are not, it will be because of the exact people whose material you say you don't want to use.
1. Core Law = published
2. Spell Law = published
3. Creature Law 1
4. Treasure Law
5. Creature Law 2 (if they are still publishing the creature creation material separate)
6. The companion book that jdale mentioned that is written.
That may be 6 already written possibly. That would be a quarter or a third of the way to 20
Those took more than a decade of development to get to this point. The fact that they are being released close together does not make the process a fast one.
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The rate they are coming out now is based on the limit of how fast things can go through art and layout based on one person doing layout, bearing in mind that RMU is getting some priority over HARP. In the long term, resources will have to be split between RMU and HARP, but it would be better to have two people doing layout (which we briefly did until Terry passed).
That said, the bigger limiting factor is contributing writers. We can have enough editing and art and layout capacity and still not put out a book because no one wrote it. Expansion material should be faster to write than core material because it's starting from a more solid foundation, but on the other hand it may require generating more new ideas so that's a trade-off too. There are a bunch of people here who I know are quite capable of writing great material, and probably a bunch more people who are quite capable even though I don't know it yet, but it's a big commitment of time and focus and they have to decide to do so.
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That said, the bigger limiting factor is contributing writers. We can have enough editing and art and layout capacity and still not put out a book because no one wrote it. Expansion material should be faster to write than core material because it's starting from a more solid foundation, but on the other hand it may require generating more new ideas so that's a trade-off too. There are a bunch of people here who I know are quite capable of writing great material, and probably a bunch more people who are quite capable even though I don't know it yet, but it's a big commitment of time and focus and they have to decide to do so.
At least, in my own opinion, writers will hopefully have less concerns now that the IP is in the hands of people who I believe can be trusted to act ethically and professionally.
If I retired today I'd be helping out. If I win the lottery I'll even do it for free. ;)
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Quote:
"1. Core Law = published
2. Spell Law = published
3. Creature Law 1
4. Treasure Law
5. Creature Law 2 (if they are still publishing the creature creation material separate)
6. The companion book that jdale mentioned that is written."
End quote
Treasure Law is next out, not Creature Law 1, unless I've been deceived.
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I think there is a lot of meta-talk here about IP and the label as official material but less about what people really want. The Rolemaster Quartly issues, for instance, had only optional material in them and were written by people like Cory and Robert. I liked them but must admit that I seldom have used them at the gaming table. Going hunting through an RMQ hunting for a random magic item, monster etc is a possibility but if I am looking for something premade then the Guild Adventurer has often been of more interest.
If I get the choice between new RMQ material or an update of Channeling Companion for RMU the choice is very easy. If a new zine had content like the Guild Adventurer, I would be much more interested. Provided the target level is not too high. Avoiding the DnD trap of adventure targeting level 1 characters but having a narrative like the players are great heroes is good, but with Guild Adventurer you had level 16 adventures and it is too high in my opinion. If player characters are approaching level 20 in my experience you don't need filler episodes but are looking at ways to wrap the campaign.
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The Rolemaster Quartly issues, for instance, had only optional material in them and were written by people like Cory and Robert. I liked them but must admit that I seldom have used them at the gaming table. Going hunting through an RMQ hunting for a random magic item, monster etc is a possibility but if I am looking for something premade then the Guild Adventurer has often been of more interest.
That's likely good feedback. I wonder if gathering up a group of writers each for quarter and giving them each a small portion of a larger quarterly project would work. You could even change this up each time so that they have longer to come up with material and so that you don't keep getting on person's angle on those things. This way no one person has the burden of trying to write the whole thing. ICE could ask for specific things (a fully fleshed out NPC, magical items, small plot hooks, etc). Not sure if that would complicate payment or not though, but I suspect the way it works now it should be easy enough to automate that even though multiple people might be involved.
If I get the choice between new RMQ material or an update of Channeling Companion for RMU the choice is very easy.
My suspicion is we're going to see the various expansions revamped or updated first. That makes far more sense for ICE than trying to come up with frequent smaller projects. Not entirely sure how that would work. I have no qualms at all about doing that for the Channeling Companion, but I wouldn't be able to do it on my own at this point. I'm pretty sure I'd want one of the ICE guys to go over it to see what might need to change from an RMU viewpoint. Of course there's always the chance we might be able to include material that didn't make it into the last one. I had a Channeling Monk variant written up (that went into the Guild Companion). Of course that might make more sense to go into a Martial Arts Companion revamp (and then at that point might not fit what ICE would want the three various realm Monks to look like). The nice thing about the more recent companions is they were written by a much small number of people and, therefore, are likely easier to work about agreements again.
As an aside, that Channeling Monk variant ending up going into the Guild Companion at the time of the Channeling Companion's creation is a good example of why using material from 'unofficial' publications like that it a good side source for RM users. For the most part, the only thing 'unofficial' about it is there wasn't enough space to include it (and there really wasn't any time to to see if we wanted to juggle content). It didn't go through an editing pass on the old ICE's end, but then I can't think of anything they had us change from that standpoint anyhow.
If a new zine had content like the Guild Adventurer, I would be much more interested. Provided the target level is not too high. Avoiding the DnD trap of adventure targeting level 1 characters but having a narrative like the players are great heroes is good, but with Guild Adventurer you had level 16 adventures and it is too high in my opinion. If player characters are approaching level 20 in my experience you don't need filler episodes but are looking at ways to wrap the campaign.
For more full on adventures I wonder if having whoever writes it stat it out for multiple levels would be feasible in certain cases. Create foes that have stats included for starting levels, mid levels, and high level if the adventure is suited to it.
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If player characters are approaching level 20 in my experience you don't need filler episodes but are looking at ways to wrap the campaign.
Even if not, by that time they all have immense backstories that need to be taken into account. They're likely to all be famous nationwide, if not worldwide. In other words, they are the kind of people who provide the setting for an adventure. You can't really take a setting generated at random and have it fit in the world they are part of, because it leaves out some major movers and shakers, i.e. the party members themselves.
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Our high level "Legends of Shadow World" worked great and play tested well. 50th level PCs with adventures that were significant but didn't really alter any canon issues.
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At least, in my own opinion, writers will hopefully have less concerns now that the IP is in the hands of people who I believe can be trusted to act ethically and professionally.
Also, for anyone who wants royalties rather than a flat upfront rate (you can pick either), they can be paid automatically by Drivethrurpg so you aren't even depending on ICE for that.
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Also, for anyone who wants royalties rather than a flat upfront rate (you can pick either), they can be paid automatically by Drivethrurpg so you aren't even depending on ICE for that.
Yep, this is how the Channeling Companion is setup. I'd rather earn based on the popularity of my work. Less risk for ICE if it's not, more reward for me if it is.
Also, you can transfer your balance to PayPal if you don't want to spend it at DriveThru.
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Some ideas from me:
* Sample rooms with some challenges that players need to overcome
* Sample encounters that give a scenario for using some RMU mechanics in a ready-to-run fashion
* Sample rooms/locations that feature some unique/interesting that you can drop into your own adventure.
This is material that I find very useful at the gaming table without somebody having to commit to making a full adventure. It is also material I could imagine contributing to myself if Ironcrown start to make a zine.
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I see a some "who is going to write the magazine". Maybe one section of a zine is already written.
Here is one small idea for a section.
I don't know how many people who bought Core Law and Spell Law come to this forum.
It would be nice in an issue or section of a magazine that has answers to important answers to GM and player questions that the development team already posted on this forum, except in PDF format organized and categorized.
Sure, that stuff might already be here, but often it's buried. Some of that stuff could be added to a magazine. The work for this type of content is already being done and or already exists. The developer could receive at least a little royalty for responding to some questions and creating more official content.
I suppose the developer replies are official commentary. Instead of posting the person who asked the question's or statement's post, you could write your own title that introduces your reply or commentary—in that way there is no royalty issue for publishing other's posts.
This is just for example. I wrote a post a few days ago "The prime requisites are not in the game anymore?" https://ironcrown.co.uk/ICEforums/index.php?topic=20961.0
If someone posted an official reply, they could reuse the answer of the that reply in a magazine, expand upon, or elaborate upon their reply. Turn that reply into a magazine paragraph or article, here is an example of how a article title might replace a question. The Latin filler is used for where text might explain an official response.
Just pick out some important replies that already exist.
Cite the forum, of course, as the source.
Why there is not longer any prime requisites?
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