Topic: Foraging/Survival

[Pat]

Hmmmmm I sort of see what you're saying but, IMO, I'd still prefer to see F/S divided into the 4 climate skills (as mentioned previously) and allow characters to develop these skills seperately.

I'm not sold on the idea of having specialities depending on ranks since (as with your example above) you will eventually reach a level where you can't fail a F/S roll and the only reason you'd invest ranks into this skill is for specialities.

I also believe that the skills learnt in one climate will not, necessarily, translate into a different one. If you took an Eskimo from Alaska with incredible foraging and survival skills, how long would they last in the Australian outback with 50c temperatures and no water? Would the skills learnt from Alaska help in this environment?

I prefer a system where there is one Foraging/Survival skill.  There are three necessities for life: food & water, shelter and warmth.  The survival aspect of the skill teaches you how to to provide those three.  Where ever you go, shelter and warmth will ensure you are alive to hunt animals.  The foraging aspect of the skill allows you to find non-meat food sources e.g. roots, eggs, etc.

I think that differing climates would actually teach you different survival skills. Would water be as important in a wet jungle environment which generally would have multiple streams or rivers? Shelter in a frigid environment would be totally different to shelter in a desert. Food becomes harder to find in deserts and frigid areas compared to temperate and jungle climates and so on..

[Karak_Nor]

I also believe that the skills learnt in one climate will not, necessarily, translate into a different one. If you took an Eskimo from Alaska with incredible foraging and survival skills, how long would they last in the Australian outback with 50c temperatures and no water? Would the skills learnt from Alaska help in this environment?

Hehe... I'm having the same arguement with my flatmate.  I agree with you in this area of disparity.  Although an extreme arguement.  If the Inuit was to slowly traverse, they would adapt their skills slowly.  If they were dumped in the desert, it would depend on whether they knew what was going on or not.  If they didn't know what was happening, then it would depend on their innate survival skills and adaptablility.  If they were the beast in their own environment but unable to adapt easily, then they will die quickly.

My arguement is this... If a character chooses to speicalise in Foraging/Survival: Arctic at first level, they will be able to use this skill in tundra, steppes, areas of permafrost and ice caps and other infertile lowlands in cold climates.  This person will know how to safely gather water which is applicable in all environments (unless you're a dwarf in which case you just brew beer), gather food (stalking prey, tracking, knowing what is/isn't safe to eat e.g. bear cubs when mama bear isn't around) and the provision of shelter (creating an area where you are protected from the elements).  The fact that the character is not conditioned/trained for an environment is where the -25 penalty comes from.  I suppose it could be raised to -50 or maybe have all difficulties raised by three.  Anyway... the principles of the providing the three necessities to human(oid) survival should all be the same.

If Bob (from my previous example) took Foraging/Survival: Waste (covers deserts) and Arctic (he's half Aborigine and Inuit), he'll know that to look for water in the Arctic you have to find a stream or safely melt and boil the water.  In the desert, he would know to look for areas of vegetation for cactus type plants, oases or waddis (middle east).  The point is, if water isn't on the surface, it's either in the sky or underground.  Certain areas will have a predisposition to where it is located.

In regards to shelter, one would know that being too hot or too cold is dangerous.  Therefore you seek shelter from wind and heat or to provide an enclosd space to contain warmth.

Trying to argue that hunting/gathering wouldn't work isn't too hard.  I'ld make character roll just to ensure they don't choose poisonous foods.

Foraging/Survial by climate suffers from the fact that some places can have two or more climates (e.g. NZ where I'm from) and multiple terrain types (e.g. NZ).  New Zealand crosses sub-tropical and temperate zones.

Anyway, must save my words so I can babble more later and you're probably tired of listening to me.   

[Right Wing Wacko]

New Zealand??
People really live there???

LOL
Just kidding... just have never, ever, ever met anyone from New Zealand... it is such a ...quiet place...

[Cloven-Fruit-Games]

You can use the sub-skills option form Harp SciFi. F/S is a skill, with an environment chosen. All other environments take a negative 20 (still better then -25 plus no ranks to counter it).
Then they can purchase more sub-skills as they learn to survive in other environments.
It allows the base ability to survive to be more useful, while still differentiating between environments.

[Karak_Nor]

You can use the sub-skills option form Harp SciFi. F/S is a skill, with an environment chosen. All other environments take a negative 20 (still better then -25 plus no ranks to counter it).
Then they can purchase more sub-skills as they learn to survive in other environments.
It allows the base ability to survive to be more useful, while still differentiating between environments.

Yeah, this is what we were discussing on the other page.  The issue is over how to break down the environments for speicialisation for F/S.  Pat is suggesting four climates, I'm suggesting about 10 environments that cover climate and terrain.

I haven't read F/S from HAPR S/F so I don't know how different the skill is.  A -20 does seem low to me for a non specialised skill and I would want to try and cause some reason to keep progressing the skill.  Refer to my reference about Bob if you want to see the numbers I generated.

[Karak_Nor]

New Zealand??
People really live there???

LOL
Just kidding... just have never, ever, ever met anyone from New Zealand... it is such a ...quiet place...

NZ is alright.  I'm going to Cambodia next year to get married so I'll know better then.  NZ is kinda like Australia, think US to Canada type situation.  I have my personal beliefs about the country but that is off topic.  Let me know if you start a thread to discuss it or try PM me.   

[Cloven-Fruit-Games]

Yeah, this is what we were discussing on the other page.  The issue is over how to break down the environments for speicialisation for F/S.  Pat is suggesting four climates, I'm suggesting about 10 environments that cover climate and terrain.

I need to learn to scan the pervious pages better.

Well, -25 is standard for a skill you do not have. I would think that -20 would seem a bit much, but you do have the ranks in the parent skill that will partially counter that.

I think if -20 is too little, just default to the -25, but allow the ranks to count.

I agree that terrain does make a difference, desert mountains are no the same as desert flatlands. Deserts near an ocean are different then landlocked deserts.

I would suggest a terrain, and a climate list. You have to chose one of each factor. The -20 applies to any other conditions. However, if you can match one of the conditions the negative is decreased: by 10 if the climate matches, by 5 if the terrain matches.

Thus:
If you have desert flatland survival; -20 to jungle mountains.
If you have desert flatland survival; -10 to desert mountains.
If you have desert flatland survival; -15 to jungle flatlands.

Some other ideas to play with.