Topic: Good Starting Level

[Maldroth]

Okay its been a while since I played RM2 and picked up the new RMC. Very good product much more clear. I do have a question for you vets though is what level do you guys usually like to start your games? The time I played the GM started us at 10 that way there was some development.

I've read parts of the Character Law and it seems like you don't have a whole lot in those early levels, so do you guys usually start at level 1 or do you give them a few levels to expand their abilities? I'm just looking for opinions really. Thanks in advance.

[Old Man]

My most recent PBEM I started the PCs at level 5. We were able to build somewhat experience adventurers with some built-in history. Also perhaps 1-2 skills at a mastery level (10 ranks). So far it has worked fairly well. I can throw a bunch of minor villains or 1-2 major villains at them with out fear.

Ciao,
Old Man

[vroomfogle]

I generally like to start between 3 and 6, I think if you get much higher then that you and your players, if not having played in a while, will feel overwhelmed.    After several levels casters will have a lot of spells....to start off keep the options for them limited to get back into the game.

However, I also like starting at level 1 too.  It can be fun.  But if you start at a low level I suggest you use the RMC option of Individual Spell List Access - as this will give low levels much more variety and will be more fun as they can have a few level 1 spells.    Otherwise if you use the core rule they may have 1 or 2 spells and not so much fun.    At low levels I also suggest using the ESF Option to give those lower level casters a chance to cast spells higher level.   This isn't as necessary as you go up in levels (though still more fun IMO).

[Maldroth]

Yeah that's what I'm afraid of with level 1 characters is the casters will feel like they are really underpowered compared to the arms characters since their spell choice will be very limited. I know it changes later on but I don't want to turn them off to a great game with a slow start.

[Setorn]

When I played RM2 in the past, I started my pc’s at level three always. 
I just started a new RMC game and chose to make it a basic game with few options.  Most of the options that I am using are in SL, but they mostly deal with ESF and overcastting so that these 1st level characters can (if they dare) cast a second or third level spell. 
This is the only 1st level game I have ever run, and it is not easy.  Few adversaries will not over power the pc’s.  So, I think I am going to help them achieve second level quickly.  Three of my players are new to Rolemaster and have not really understood how to specialize their characters. 
One has created a Mystic, but has demanded that he learn Martial Arts.  He spent most of his DP on Martial Arts and power point dev., body dev., and spells and not much else.  I think that he has one spell list.  I tried to warn him, but not dictate to him.  I guess that he will learn. 
Another has created a Magician who likes to steal.  He spent more time on being a mage than a thief unlike the other guy, but is also so diversified that it seems nearly a waste.   
The other new player has created an Animist who really knows his herbs, knows Herb Mastery, and has chosen as his extra base list five of the closed channeling lists.  Now if the others were as specialized the party would be doing better.   

[Monteblanco]

Always at the first level. It may be tough to the PCs, but then is very rewarding.

[rboleyn]

At low levels I also suggest using the ESF Option to give those lower level casters a chance to cast spells higher level.   This isn't as necessary as you go up in levels (though still more fun IMO).

IME using the ESF rules (as written in RM2, anyway) most commonly results in much GM entertainment at the expense of the spell casting characters as they fail ESF checks and blow up, fall over in coma, or become really low-grade non-spell users for extended periods.

[Ecthelion]

We (almost) always start at level one. It is true that especially the magic users are fairly weak at the beginning, but OTOH I'm not one of those who complain that they get too powerful later - that's just the reward for surviving those weak early levels  .

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

My suggestion would be to get Rolemaster Express, which includes several options to make low level characters more viable overall. Plus it has an adventure for first level characters.

You can then add in things from RMC to fill out the game even more as you go along.

[Marc R]

I find first works, but to speed things up 3rd is usually high enough unless there's reason to push higher.

[vroomfogle]

Another thing you can do is to start at 1st, but speed through the first couple levels - like a level a session (or even half a session depending on how long they are).    This way it's really fast and easy to make the character initially, then they have in between sessions to develop a new level, and can learn as they go along.    No reason to use XP or anything the first few sessions, just cruise through until you get to level 3 or 4.

[Maldroth]

Okay I'm going to take the RMX suggestion and pick that up and see what it has for ideas. They are essentually comptatable RMX and RMC aside from RMX having fewer races/professions and spell lists correct?

Right now I'm looking at level 3-5 I need to look at things a bit closer.

My players are the new generation of gamers that grew up with d20 and I want to show them the fun of RM but not have them lose interest if their character can't do much or fight much right away. I definately understand the merits of earning those first levels but for an introduction to the system it will be a little better to get a few more tools in the toolbelt for the character. I also want an easier choice of foes for them to fight and not have to worry about killing them too quickly after spending all the time making a RM character.

Keep the suggestions and examples coming thanks!

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Yes, RMX is basically a sub-set of the RMC rules (but still a complete game in its own right).

RMX has a few options in place to make the game run smoother and make low level characters more survivable overall, and those options/changes are fully detailed near the end of the RMX book so that you know what the differences are.

[Ranger]

  When I ran RM I used to start characters at 3rd or 4th level. That gave decent skills and enough hits to give folks a chance to live a while longer. BUT usually I made them earn the full exp before I allowed them to advance to the next level.   

[mocking bird]

We usually start out at 3 or 5.  We are experienced players and have a good character concept to start out with which is usually what the low levels are good for.  Also around that time you start hitting things and can actually cast some spells without worrying about failing all the time.

My players are the new generation of gamers that grew up with d20 and I want to show them the fun of RM but not have them lose interest if their character can't do much or fight much right away. I definately understand the merits of earning those first levels but for an introduction to the system it will be a little better to get a few more tools in the toolbelt for the character. I also want an easier choice of foes for them to fight and not have to worry about killing them too quickly after spending all the time making a RM character.

In that case I would suggest first.  You can gain levels fairly quickly and you can get used to the system.  Another thing we allow for new players is that at 7th level or so, you are allowed one 'rewrite' in case you really screwed up your skill development because you didn't know what you were doing.  For example we had one newbie who kept dying because he never developed Body Dev the first few levels.

[smug]

If you're gaming with newbies, the extra levels will make chargen even more intimidating (although not as problematic as it might be for RMSS/FRP players), unless you pregenerate characters (in which case your martial arts-using mystic wouldn't have come to pass anyway).

[Rivstyx]

I started one campaign at adolescent level.  The characters started out stranded on an island they had to escape.  They played as non-professioned/laymen until they gained 5000 xp and at that time the group decided what kind of characters they would be.  It was pretty fun.  Other than that I generally start chracters at 1st level.

[shnar]

Usually 1st level, though occassionally 5th level.

For new players, RMX *should* be a better way to introduce them to the game. By removing a lot of options and streamlining the game, they can simply play and have fun. Later, they'll want more realism, and that's when you move to RMC (It's how I found out about RM, first started with MERP, played for a while, then picked up ArmsLaw and used that for a bit, then eventually just moved over to RM2).

Part of your problem might be the type of characters your players wnat to play out of the box. They don't really exist, so be flexible with the professions. For example, the Mystic who wants to use MA, have him play as a Monk but not with the Monk spells lists, rather the mystic ones. This way he gets some magic, some MA, and it's not much of a waste.

-shnar

[Willen]

IF you're just showing off the system to hook them up, I agree 3-4th level is the best.

However, my group really prefers to start off as 1st level "commoners", as it presents many oportunities for the characters to bond, develop, etc. I try to speed it all the way to level 3 anyway, but those first levels and decitions are then core in the character's view on the world.

[Nejira]

I made a mistake back when I started GMing with RMFRP as I had my players remake their DnD characters which were level 8 so we made lvl 8 RMFRP characters where none of us had any real experience with RM.

We spend many hours creating characters, which really tested my players` patience. So I would not suggest starting on a higher level if you (and your players) are new to RM.