Author Topic: Query: Does any one take directed spell?  (Read 1412 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline EltonJ

  • Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 378
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« on: August 12, 2022, 02:04:07 PM »
Just wondering if you mages out there practice (take ranks in) directed spell skill.

Offline pastaav

  • Sage
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,609
  • OIC Points +0/-0
    • Swedish gaming club
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2022, 02:15:44 PM »
I cannot imagine any mage bothering to cast a bolt spell if they don't have a reasonable OB. If the spell user does not intends to make bolt attacks the circumstances change.

It is also worth noticing that low-level spells give more oportunity to get ranks on the attacks. This has a nice effect on making the low-powered bolts stay relevant for a larger part of the game when the raw damage potential of the more powerful bolts otherwise would make it a no-brainer to always go for the most powerful spell.
/Pa Staav

Offline Spectre771

  • Revered Elder
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,385
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2022, 03:27:53 PM »
All the spell user PCs I've made and all of the spell users from my friends have all taken Directed Spells.  It's the equivalent of the OB skill categories for non-spell users.  It's low cost for a spell user anyway so there's really no bad reason to take it.
If discretion is the better valor and
cowardice the better part of judgment,
let's all be heroes and run away!

Offline Jengada

  • Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 409
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2022, 05:21:13 PM »
Ditto this. Not having ranks in Directed Spells is a huge mistake, for anyone using spells that allow DS bonuses.

All the spell user PCs I've made and all of the spell users from my friends have all taken Directed Spells.  It's the equivalent of the OB skill categories for non-spell users.  It's low cost for a spell user anyway so there's really no bad reason to take it.
We ask the hard questions here, because they keep us too busy to worry about the hard questions in the real world, and we can go with the answers we like the best.

Offline MisterK

  • Senior Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 656
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2022, 12:02:48 AM »
Any spell user that plans to use a telekinetic strike, attack illusion, or elemental targeted spell (even infrequently) just *has* to take the associated directed spell skill. Not doing it is just as if a Fighter was not developing weapon skills.

Of course, you *can* have a spell user that never uses those spells - plenty of those around, from Mentalist to Cleric to Runemage. But if you have the targeted spell and plan to use it ? Put those DPs into the Directed Spell skill.

Offline Ruffie

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 51
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2022, 01:04:01 AM »
Our mage adds into directed spell every level when he can. He uses icebolt almost every round when he can in combat and his directed spell OB is high enough that it’s almost max result against an enemy every round.

Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

  • Revered Elder
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,222
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2022, 02:14:43 PM »
Not doing it is just as if a Fighter was not developing weapon skills.
Actually, that's not quite true, because of the "parry" system. A fighter "must" develop weapon skills as much as he can because his opponent probably would, and the physical combat system is an opposed system, where said opponent is able to subtract part of his OB from the fighter's OB. However, one cannot "parry" a directed spell so, whilst it may be advisable for a spell caster to maximise his directed spell skill, it is hardly mandatory, as his efficiency wouldn't go down from an opponent to another "higher level", so, along with his level bonus in directed spell if he has any, a spell caster with only a few ranks in directed spell would be potent enough not to matter with developing more.

...then you have the spell attack variability for elemental attack spells, an optional rule with no equivalent for physical combat. If a GM uses it, there's even less need to go overboard with the directed spell skills in any bolt, as one may just spend more PPs and depend on the hit damage instead of the critical hit result.
The world was then consumed by darkness, and mankind was devoured alive and cast into hell, led by a jubilant 紗羽. She rejoiced in being able to continue serving the gods, thus perpetuating her travels across worlds to destroy them. She looked at her doll and, remembering their promises, told her: "You see, my dear, we succeeded! We've become legends! We've become villains! We've become witches!" She then laughed with a joyful, childlike laughter, just as she kept doing for all of eternity.

Offline MisterK

  • Senior Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 656
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2022, 11:51:54 PM »
Not doing it is just as if a Fighter was not developing weapon skills.
Actually, that's not quite true, because of the "parry" system. A fighter "must" develop weapon skills as much as he can because his opponent probably would, and the physical combat system is an opposed system, where said opponent is able to subtract part of his OB from the fighter's OB. However, one cannot "parry" a directed spell so, whilst it may be advisable for a spell caster to maximise his directed spell skill, it is hardly mandatory, as his efficiency wouldn't go down from an opponent to another "higher level", so, along with his level bonus in directed spell if he has any, a spell caster with only a few ranks in directed spell would be potent enough not to matter with developing more.

...then you have the spell attack variability for elemental attack spells, an optional rule with no equivalent for physical combat. If a GM uses it, there's even less need to go overboard with the directed spell skills in any bolt, as one may just spend more PPs and depend on the hit damage instead of the critical hit result.
That's true. However, directed spell attacks are still affected by a number of factors (range and cover, among others) which still provide an incentive to develop the skill. Additionally, the intrinsic DB of opponents tend to increase with level as well (especially because of magical means).
And I'm pretty sure the spell attack variability is mostly useful for the low-level bolts (Shock Bolt being a prime candidate, since it can be raised to near-unholy levels of concussion hit damage if you have a DS skill high enough to reach the double digit hits on the attack result. As far as I remember, Spell Attack Variability raises the effective spell level to the number of PPs you spend, so using it on a lightning bolt would require quite a high-level character, while using it on a shock bolt is available to the masses.

Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

  • Revered Elder
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,222
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2022, 03:41:37 AM »
That's true. However, directed spell attacks are still affected by a number of factors (range and cover, among others) which still provide an incentive to develop the skill. Additionally, the intrinsic DB of opponents tend to increase with level as well (especially because of magical means).
DB doesn't increase as much as OB does, though, or shouldn't IMO. Also, not all DB actually is useful against a directed attack spell; in fact, most of it is not, as RM2's raw only define the QU bonus and special spells or items to modify the EAR rather than the full DB.

Also, I did mention a need to develop the directed spell skill to a certain level: I never even once contested this fact. What I contested is to compare its development for a spell user to the development of a weapon skill for a fighter. The latter needs to develop it to the highest possible score whereas the former only needs it to develop it to a good score, which isn't even quite high: even reaching 50 OB in a directed spell skill would be enough in many situations.

Quote
And I'm pretty sure the spell attack variability is mostly useful for the low-level bolts (Shock Bolt being a prime candidate, since it can be raised to near-unholy levels of concussion hit damage if you have a DS skill high enough to reach the double digit hits on the attack result. As far as I remember, Spell Attack Variability raises the effective spell level to the number of PPs you spend, so using it on a lightning bolt would require quite a high-level character, while using it on a shock bolt is available to the masses.
It also raises the damage inflicted, meaning that, once one reaches a directed spell skill high enough to score say, 5A damage, one doesn't need much to increase one's OB, as multiplying the damage through the spell attack variability is a good enough tactic. Sure, it works better with low-level spells, but it means that if one chooses such  a tactic, one doesn't then need much to develop a directed spell skills for later, higher-level, spells.

For instance, the Warrior-Mage, who is plagued with just not enough DPs to develop all of his directed spell skills most of the times, may just choose to develop the shock bolt, forget about the other bolts, then use the SAV rule to increase his damage instead of the critical inflicted. As such, the rule gives an incense not to develop (other) directed spell skills over the lowest level spell.
The world was then consumed by darkness, and mankind was devoured alive and cast into hell, led by a jubilant 紗羽. She rejoiced in being able to continue serving the gods, thus perpetuating her travels across worlds to destroy them. She looked at her doll and, remembering their promises, told her: "You see, my dear, we succeeded! We've become legends! We've become villains! We've become witches!" She then laughed with a joyful, childlike laughter, just as she kept doing for all of eternity.

Offline Hurin

  • Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,347
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2022, 08:50:31 AM »
If you don't use the optional spell attack variability rule, if you're short on Power Points, or if you are fighting high hit point enemies such as a Tyrannosaurus, then it is ideal to have a high Directed Spell bonus.

In my campaigns, every caster maximizes the skill. I don't think there have been any exceptions.
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

'Every party needs at least one insane person.'  --Aspen of the Jade Isle

Offline MisterK

  • Senior Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 656
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2022, 10:14:46 AM »
If you don't use the optional spell attack variability rule, if you're short on Power Points, or if you are fighting high hit point enemies such as a Tyrannosaurus, then it is ideal to have a high Directed Spell bonus.

In my campaigns, every caster maximizes the skill. I don't think there have been any exceptions.
Same here, though it might also be out of habit :)

However, there was typically a drop of DS skills for specific bolts when later (more powerful) bolts became available - Lightning Bolt being usually the favoured type as soon as it was available.

Offline EltonJ

  • Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 378
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2022, 10:17:23 PM »
When I made my first magician, I didn't take the directed spell (although I did start in Light Law).  I was planning to take directed spell when I got the shock bolt spell.

Offline MisterK

  • Senior Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 656
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2022, 11:44:41 PM »
When I made my first magician, I didn't take the directed spell (although I did start in Light Law).  I was planning to take directed spell when I got the shock bolt spell.
Theoretically, the basic rule is that you cannot take the DS skill until you have the spell to cast. A provision was made (I don't remember in which edition) that you could take the DS skill in the same level as the one you acquired the spell (acquiring both in the same development).

I'm not sure is having the spell available but in overcasting was allowed or not.

Offline Hurin

  • Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,347
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2022, 12:39:56 AM »
And, since we're in the general Rolemaster forum, it is worth noting that RMU makes Elemental Bolt a single specialization of Directed Spell. So you get skill in all Elemental Bolts with one skill.
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

'Every party needs at least one insane person.'  --Aspen of the Jade Isle

Offline jdale

  • RMU Dev Team
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,103
  • OIC Points +25/-25
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2022, 01:00:05 AM »
But also it's a lot harder to get a meaningful hit without a decent OB. That low level bolt is actually a big advantage because you can start developing that skill earlier in your career.
System and Line Editor for Rolemaster

Offline intothatdarkness

  • Navigator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,879
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2022, 10:04:55 AM »
If you don't use the optional spell attack variability rule, if you're short on Power Points, or if you are fighting high hit point enemies such as a Tyrannosaurus, then it is ideal to have a high Directed Spell bonus.

In my campaigns, every caster maximizes the skill. I don't think there have been any exceptions.

Same here. And I've loaded up on it the few times I've played a caster with directed spells. It simply makes no sense NOT to.
Darn that salt pork!

Offline Tommi

  • Seeker of Wisdom
  • **
  • Posts: 276
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2022, 11:08:40 PM »
To learn directerd spell - it is enough to be able to cast the spell daily. Thus daily item will allow skill development even at level 1. e.g. RMSS amateurmage TP often gives daily item that allows casting 2nd or 3rd level spell (enough for shock bolt). Depending on talent / background option used PC may have higher level daily items ...

Not maxing directed spell ranks or having just a few while using RM2, RMC or RMSS is possible because dir spell attack tables have quite large built in bonus compared to weapon tables. After 10 (or 10 + 10 in RMSS)  ranks need to buy more may not be as important. However almost all mages I've seen have maxed some directed spell

RMU beta attack tables however are quite different and more comparable to weapon tables. I expect all maxing directed spell skill


Offline PiXeL01

  • Senior Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 631
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Seeing things from the top of Mt. Fuji
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2022, 06:37:13 AM »
Any caster of mine with a bolt spell had that spell maxed. Magicians would stop at perhaps 10 ranks except for Ice Bolt and Lightning bolts in RM2.

I always wanted it to be a similar (50% of highest ranks to all other skills) as the technique could be considered similar though handling the element might be different.
PiXeL01 - RM2/RMC Fanboy

I think violence in games only causes violence in real life if the person in question has an insufficient mental capacity to deal with the real world in the first place. But, that's more the fault of poor genetics and poorer parenting than it is the fault of a videogame

Offline Hurin

  • Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,347
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2022, 08:54:32 AM »
I always wanted it to be a similar (50% of highest ranks to all other skills) as the technique could be considered similar though handling the element might be different.

Am pretty sure one of the RM2 companions offered that option (probably Companion II).
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

'Every party needs at least one insane person.'  --Aspen of the Jade Isle

Offline Majyk

  • Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 477
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Query: Does any one take directed spell?
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2022, 12:28:17 PM »
Yup, that was how I always allowed it.
It meant one used their Shockbolt(as a Magician) Dir. spell ranks - half of ‘em - until one developed more ranks with the higher spells(Water/Fire/Ice/Lightning/Plasma, etc.)

Any caster of mine with a bolt spell had that spell maxed. Magicians would stop at perhaps 10 ranks except for Ice Bolt and Lightning bolts in RM2.

I always wanted it to be a similar (50% of highest ranks to all other skills) as the technique could be considered similar though handling the element might be different.