Topic: Alchemy/Item Creation Redundancy

[Eladan]

I've been looking at the rules for alchemy & item creation and it seems like the mechanics for  across all versions are rather redundant, e.g. the *Embedding* lists.

For example, if I want to create a Ring of Shockbolts (1x day), then throughout the crafting process I need to:
• Base Item - Cast Work Lesser Metal - 1 Time Unit x 5th level = 5 TUs
• 1st Ability - Cast Embed II, Daily III, and Shock Bolt - (1 TU x 5th lvl) + (1 TU x 10th lvl) + (1TU x 2nd lvl) = 17 TUs
This gives a total of 22 TUs for this ring. Granted the numbers and levels will vary depending on the version of RM you use (I used RMU for this example).

Here's my issue — why is the Embed spell even necessary? Isn't this mechanic somewhat repetitive? The language of Daily spell states "Allows caster to embed a 3rd level Essence spell (in conjunction with an Embed spell) that can be cast once per day", but isn't the Daily spell essentially doing the embedding? In fact, isn't this true of other spells as well, such as Charge Wand and the like? It seems like a simple reworking of the language could make the process much smoother.

Reading some other posts on this topic, the common wisdom seems to have been "It's always been done this way" but it seems like lists could be merged and spell slots used for other abilities. I was just curious if there was a rationale behind it.

[EltonJ]

I've been looking at the rules for alchemy & item creation and it seems like the mechanics for  across all versions are rather redundant, e.g. the *Embedding* lists.

For example, if I want to create a Ring of Shockbolts (1x day), then throughout the crafting process I need to:
• Base Item - Cast Work Lesser Metal - 1 Time Unit x 5th level = 5 TUs
• 1st Ability - Cast Embed II, Daily III, and Shock Bolt - (1 TU x 5th lvl) + (1 TU x 10th lvl) + (1TU x 2nd lvl) = 17 TUs
This gives a total of 22 TUs for this ring. Granted the numbers and levels will vary depending on the version of RM you use (I used RMU for this example).

Here's my issue — why is the Embed spell even necessary? Isn't this mechanic somewhat repetitive? The language of Daily spell states "Allows caster to embed a 3rd level Essence spell (in conjunction with an Embed spell) that can be cast once per day", but isn't the Daily spell essentially doing the embedding? In fact, isn't this true of other spells as well, such as Charge Wand and the like? It seems like a simple reworking of the language could make the process much smoother.

Reading some other posts on this topic, the common wisdom seems to have been "It's always been done this way" but it seems like lists could be merged and spell slots used for other abilities. I was just curious if there was a rationale behind it.

Depends on how you want do the spells in your game.  But I think the Raw is that "Daily x" only grants the item an allowance to cast the spell.  The daily spells, as I see them, does not embed the spell.

[Eladan]

That's fair, and I see the logic behind the notion. For me it seems like an extra step though, and I tend towards simplicity in game play. Unless it's really necessary, I don't see the need for two spells for what is essentially one function. If the Shock Bolt is being cast each day, I could see the Daily spell as embedding the magic into the item itself in a "daily" form.

[jdale]

Daily can also be used for multiple spells. E.g. you use a Daily X to imbed a pair of 5th level spells with two castings of Embed V and the embedded spells. Or in RMU you can use Daily X to imbed a 20th level spell with Embed XX, to be used once a week, or a 40th level spell to be used once a month (not sure if that is possible in previous versions). The separate Embed spell helps balance out the costs for those things.

You can also use Embed by itself for disposable items (e.g. a single use arrow with an enchantment).

[rdanhenry]

"Allows caster to embed..." with a suitable Embed spell, not "Embeds..."
Embed allows you to put the spell in, but it needs to be linked (except for single use items) another spell that doles the spell back out again.
As to why it was originally designed that way, I don't know that there's anyone around that knows. Frankly, after all this time, even the original author's memory would be suspect. There's certainly a logic to it, but as it is a logic of a fantasy process, if you want to change it for your own use, nobody can say that you're wrong.
But all the spell do their thing. The Work spell preps the item to receive enchantment. The embedded spell defines the form of the magical effect. The Embed spell puts that magic into the item. The Daily/Constant/etc. spell creates the path to get that magic back out into the world as the defined effect.