Topic: Play Balance Issues - have a PC with an OP weapon

[Druss_the_Legend]

Actually the sword was taken from the PC by a city guard when he was captured and put in the city dungeon and then later found its way into the hands of a merchant who. When the PC recovered it, there was an extra ability on the sword which enhanced his frenzy bonus by +10.

Just off the cuff, I'd be inclined to keep boosting that bonus higher and higher. The item becomes more powerful.

But only for going into a frenzy. It would become a penalty for getting out of it, or distinguishing allies while in a frenzied state.

Nice. This makes the sword. areal liability when he is in Frenzy (even more than before) because he cant shut it off as easily and it fits his character well - kill all 'enemies'. Quite like The Hulk when he becomes enraged - you just dont want to be anywhere hear him. I have already foreshadowed the sword has been 'enhanced' when he recovered the sword after losing it and it was giving him an extra bonus to frenzy This is just a natural progression of this idea... the sword is becoming more dangerous and is corrupting the barbarian turning him into a beserker god type figure or just a ruthless killing machine.

In a short time the party will realise that the sword and the barbarian need to be separated or the player will realise that using frenzy is just too dangerous for his allies and then hopefully avoid using frenzy all together or as a last resort in battle.

[Druss_the_Legend]

This to me seems the best way forward.
So options might include
1) the swords abilities 'shutting off'
2) the swords abilities corrupting the PC (the sword turning evil and causing a drawback to trigger)
3) the true owner of the sword somehow being 'alerted' to the misuse of the heroic sword and sending an emissary/messenger to demand its recall or even its destruction (PC could undertake a heroic quest to prove he is worthy and swear to use the sword only for heroic deeds or its magic is lost forever)
4) the sword itself might be sentient /intelligent and seek to change the PCs outlook/alignment and 'freeze' in place when it is used again for non-heroic deeds.

thoughts?

I like the idea of relatives of the swords victims seeking out the PC for revenge also, this might be a long list but importantly he may have slain someone important which has triggered relatives/henchmen/a brother/bounty hunters to seek him out.

"1) the swords abilities 'shutting off'"

I *LOVE* this idea!  The sword needs to be recharged or allowed to rest for some long period of time.  Not knowing the creator of the sword or the swrd's entire history, the PC would never know that it needs to be allowed 'down time' or to be bathed in the blood of a unicorn once a year to maintain its magical properties.

"2) the swords abilities corrupting the PC (the sword turning evil and causing a drawback to trigger)"

This is equally awesome.  The PC would have no idea at all that the sword is cursed/corrupt if the effect is very subtle or slow acting.  Have the PC make a RR each session but tell tell him why.  Keep a tally.  Maybe the PC's greed increases, or he blurs the lines a little too easily now, or the urge to kill seems to always outweigh the option of negotiation.

Im leaning towards the corruption angle. the powers of the sword are actually increasing with each enemy he kills with it to the point he will not be able to control himself in battle and be a dangerous threat to his allies (even more so than before) as the sword will urge him to keep killing/even his allies, even when he wants to stop fighting. Essentially a cursed weapon that has slowly started to reveal itself as more enemies have been killed and killed in non-heroic combat. The next time he goes into frenzy he is in for a nasty surprise and the next battle he will fight he may even involuntarily go into a frenzied rage. He will get an RR but can get him to make a check at the start of each session (without knowing what hes checking for).

[EltonJ]

You can also give the sword an Intelligence.  That grows more powerful as the sword grows in power. 

[Spectre771]

You can also give the sword an Intelligence.  That grows more powerful as the sword grows in power.

...as the PC levels up, so does the sword....

I love it!

[EltonJ]

You can also give the sword an Intelligence.  That grows more powerful as the sword grows in power.

...as the PC levels up, so does the sword....

I love it!

Just wait until the intelligence overpowers the PC. 

[Druss_the_Legend]

You can also give the sword an Intelligence.  That grows more powerful as the sword grows in power.

...as the PC levels up, so does the sword....

I love it!

Just wait until the intelligence overpowers the PC.

who is in control now

[Hurin]

I don't think you want to kill that skeleton, Dave.

[Dax]

...

I have a PC with an OP weapon. it hits for large amounts of damage. Understandably he is rather attached to the sword after a number of years now so the horse may well have bolted.
...

I don't know what OP stands for (P for Potent (item)?)

You stated that it is the "Whispering Sword" out of a companion.
If it is identical to the one out of "RM Classic Creature & Treasure",
it is interesting that this is balance breaking (it is stated as modest item ...)


If you want to make the PC to give it up and make it mysteriously
just increased the fumble rate by one:
"You rolled a '03' something changed: Make a fumble roll!"

Some time (playtime or realtime) later:
"You rolled a '04': Make a fumble roll!"
The end of the line? Maybe '08' maybe higher.

But why is the sword doing this?
(This presumes a kind of intelligence of the sword)
Maybe it will back to its creator or its original owner,
maybe it will away from this person with his battle anger (frenzy) or
maybe it is just time to change its wielder.

And the present user might never know.

[The Chorned Jat]

(i'm assuming OP here is shorthand for "over powered")

[EltonJ]

(i'm assuming OP here is shorthand for "over powered")

Yes, he does mean it's overpowered.

[Druss_the_Legend]

(i'm assuming OP here is shorthand for "over powered")

correct.

[Druss_the_Legend]

...

I have a PC with an OP weapon. it hits for large amounts of damage. Understandably he is rather attached to the sword after a number of years now so the horse may well have bolted.
...

I don't know what OP stands for (P for Potent (item)?)

You stated that it is the "Whispering Sword" out of a companion.
If it is identical to the one out of "RM Classic Creature & Treasure",
it is interesting that this is balance breaking (it is stated as modest item ...)


If you want to make the PC to give it up and make it mysteriously
just increased the fumble rate by one:
"You rolled a '03' something changed: Make a fumble roll!"

Some time (playtime or realtime) later:
"You rolled a '04': Make a fumble roll!"
The end of the line? Maybe '08' maybe higher.

But why is the sword doing this?
(This presumes a kind of intelligence of the sword)
Maybe it will back to its creator or its original owner,
maybe it will away from this person with his battle anger (frenzy) or
maybe it is just time to change its wielder.

And the present user might never know.

in my campaign we were using super fast combat system so a 2H sword does 7d12 + stat bonus (One fifth of stats St/St/Ag mod) +1 for each +5 magical bonus.

• the character has a very large St/St/Ag mod of about 40 so extra +8
  when they are in frenzy the damage is Doubled
  the weapon is a short sword so he can use a second one-handed weapon (uses 2 weapon combo skill) or sometimes a shield.
  trust me when I say the damage this weapon deals is massive and this specific sword is quite over powered in his hands.

Whats good is through the responses on this thread I have come up with an elegant solution that does not involve destroying the sword or taking it away from them...
The sword will reveal it has a 'bloodlust' enchantment placed on it that will causes it to become more powerful at each level advancement by the character!
The bloodlust causes its wielder to almost automatically go into a frenzy and make it difficult to come out of frenzy again.
The effect should make the sword a liability to use with any allies nearby.
As the player levels up, so does the swords 'boost' to his frenzy and the extra mod is a negative mod to them trying to come out of frenzy again.
Frenzy is where the weapon is the most dangerous and unbalancing. Im hoping the party and player will come to realise the weapon is only to be used rarely and almost never with allies nearby.

[Dax]

OP = over powered
Thank you all for the clarification (I'm too old for your youth slang abbreviations )

@Druss
I believe you, when you tell me: "the damage this weapon deals is massive and this specific sword is quite over powered in his hands".

It is the campaign (the circumstances) that makes an item outstanding.

And now we await the next topic, Druss_the_Threadstarter.

[katastrophe]

...

I have a PC with an OP weapon. it hits for large amounts of damage. Understandably he is rather attached to the sword after a number of years now so the horse may well have bolted.
...

I don't know what OP stands for (P for Potent (item)?)

You stated that it is the "Whispering Sword" out of a companion.
If it is identical to the one out of "RM Classic Creature & Treasure",
it is interesting that this is balance breaking (it is stated as modest item ...)


If you want to make the PC to give it up and make it mysteriously
just increased the fumble rate by one:
"You rolled a '03' something changed: Make a fumble roll!"

Some time (playtime or realtime) later:
"You rolled a '04': Make a fumble roll!"
The end of the line? Maybe '08' maybe higher.

But why is the sword doing this?
(This presumes a kind of intelligence of the sword)
Maybe it will back to its creator or its original owner,
maybe it will away from this person with his battle anger (frenzy) or
maybe it is just time to change its wielder.

And the present user might never know.

in my campaign we were using super fast combat system so a 2H sword does 7d12 + stat bonus (One fifth of stats St/St/Ag mod) +1 for each +5 magical bonus.

• the character has a very large St/St/Ag mod of about 40 so extra +8
  when they are in frenzy the damage is Doubled
  the weapon is a short sword so he can use a second one-handed weapon (uses 2 weapon combo skill) or sometimes a shield.
  trust me when I say the damage this weapon deals is massive and this specific sword is quite over powered in his hands.

Whats good is through the responses on this thread I have come up with an elegant solution that does not involve destroying the sword or taking it away from them...
The sword will reveal it has a 'bloodlust' enchantment placed on it that will causes it to become more powerful at each level advancement by the character!
The bloodlust causes its wielder to almost automatically go into a frenzy and make it difficult to come out of frenzy again.
The effect should make the sword a liability to use with any allies nearby.
As the player levels up, so does the swords 'boost' to his frenzy and the extra mod is a negative mod to them trying to come out of frenzy again.
Frenzy is where the weapon is the most dangerous and unbalancing. Im hoping the party and player will come to realise the weapon is only to be used rarely and almost never with allies nearby.

We also use the fast combat system and I can see how this guy would be dangerous. But when he is Frenzied, he has a very low DB I presume and I also presume he is not immune to magic. Also, I was confused about the weapon being 2H and a short sword, which if he has a 2H weapon, not only is he disadvantaged while parrying, his DB should be even lower since no shields, etc. If it is a short sword and wants to use 2 weapon combat he has to develop each combination and is once again disadvantaged from DB.

Killing up minions should be what he is good at but in the fast combat system, arrows are super dangerous, and so is magic, particularly bolts. Or worse for him unless he has some kind of really special resistance, a sorcerer or evil cleric could quickly ruin his day with spells that break bones or knock off 1/2 his hits each casting. Or could simply stun him over and over.

We have not found high damage items to cause any more problems that other weapons.

[MisterK]

We also use the fast combat system and I can see how this guy would be dangerous. But when he is Frenzied, he has a very low DB I presume and I also presume he is not immune to magic. Also, I was confused about the weapon being 2H and a short sword, which if he has a 2H weapon, not only is he disadvantaged while parrying, his DB should be even lower since no shields, etc. If it is a short sword and wants to use 2 weapon combat he has to develop each combination and is once again disadvantaged from DB.

Presumably, the character uses a short sword that strikes on the two-handed sword table. He *did* say it was an overpowered weapon

I wonder how that kind of killing machine works when they are mind controlled or demonically possessed ? If the character is a case of "strong muscles, weak brains", the potential for mayhem is right there. Just do not use it against his party. Use it in a town with plenty of innocent people who cannot defend themselves *and* plenty of witnesses.

[Rask Tril]

Regarding OP weapons...who "gave" the OP weapon to the pc.  The GM did.  Those who give it also take it away.  Has the GM created a low fantasy setting or are street post lamps lit with common magic.  It's up for the GM to determine what is OP, whether it's an item or spell.  Having an OP item and meeting with a very powerful king, mage, etc. and they say, "That looks very interesting.  I want it.  Give it to me (with a "or else" look)".

[GrumpyOldFart]

Have someone spread a rumor that he stole it. A rumor that follows him everywhere he goes.

So okay, now people won't do business with you, the local Watch is after you wherever you go, etc.

That way when the king above says, "I want it. Give it to me," the guy will actually be ready to go for it.