Author Topic: "Free" Spells  (Read 1622 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Elrich Maltah

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • OIC Points +0/-0
"Free" Spells
« on: June 14, 2022, 03:05:41 PM »
While researching material for this topic, I became aware of "free" spells, those that require no power points. I was curious about this and decided to investigate just how prevalent they were in RM2. What I discovered is that there are four main categories for these types of spells:
  • "Presence" spells that detect the presence of other thinking beings - Found in Astrologer, closed Mentalism, Mentalist, Seer, Chaotic Lord, Astral Traveler, and Doppelganger
  • "Misfeel" spells that hide the caster's characteristics - Found in closed Mentalism, Mystic, Montebanc, Houri, and Enchanter. (Curiously, NOT Nightblade)
  • "Preparation" spells that prepare the caster's body for the rigors of a spell list - Found in Dervish, Evil Magician, and Doppelganger
  • "Bonus" spells that provide a direct bonus (or penalty) to a skill (or target) - Found in Warlock, Sage, and Dervish
Some of the Presence and Misfeel spells from Spell Law and the original professions vary from edition to edition (RM1/RM2/RMSS/RMFRP/RMC) as to whether the "free" notation is used.

There are a couple other Dervish spells that have that notation (Metabolize Liquids and Metabolize Solids, but not (?!) Metabolize Gas) and some other special and arcane spells, but they seem to be outliers. Otherwise, this appears to be a very limited-use spell type across the whole of RM.

I'm curious to know if anyone has any insight into what the rationale was for this type of spell. Was it that the spells in question were intended to be used so frequently that the casters shouldn't be penalized for the cost? I suspect that there was no time savings intended because only some of the "free" spells are marked as instantaneous, so they would still take the normal time to cast as any other spell of that level.

Offline Hurin

  • Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,347
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: "Free" Spells
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2022, 03:31:25 PM »

I'm curious to know if anyone has any insight into what the rationale was for this type of spell. Was it that the spells in question were intended to be used so frequently that the casters shouldn't be penalized for the cost?

I think that, and the fact that characters in RM1/2 had very few power points. A character that takes a 90 in a Prime Requisite stat would start the game with literally 1 power point. If the Presence spell cost anything, it would be literally the only spell your character cast in the Goblin cave.

The change the Companions made to RM2, to go to a PP Development skill, was revolutionary, and henceforth was retained in RMSS/FRP/RMU.
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

'Every party needs at least one insane person.'  --Aspen of the Jade Isle

Offline jdale

  • RMU Dev Team
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,103
  • OIC Points +25/-25
Re: "Free" Spells
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2022, 08:33:55 PM »
In some sense, once a spell becomes free, it stops really being a spell, and becomes an ability. It's not so much that a mentalist is casting Presence as that they have developed a sense which, with a little concentration, permits them to be aware of minds.
System and Line Editor for Rolemaster

Offline Hurin

  • Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,347
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: "Free" Spells
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2022, 09:56:58 PM »
In a sense, yes, but mechanically, you still have to roll for and face the chance of failure.
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

'Every party needs at least one insane person.'  --Aspen of the Jade Isle

Offline Majyk

  • Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 477
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: "Free" Spells
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2022, 03:37:43 AM »
…and spend the DPs to even have the list(s).

As above, it is more to flavour up the Professions with those spells; having Jedi powers that cost nothing due to a dearth of Power Points for oft-used, very minor boons.
(It is akin to the holdover AD&D1e Paladins using Detect Evil on everything…every second of the day!)

Optional rules like Base PP(Magic Realm stat/10) derived like Base Hit Points from Temp CO/10 always helped establish a floor of PP in my games that RMC would later adopt, too, as I never liked PPDev. essentially being a free x2 PP Multiplier.
Make the PCs work towards x2 Multipliers, darn it! ;)

Offline Hurin

  • Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,347
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: "Free" Spells
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2022, 08:56:18 AM »
Optional rules like Base PP(Magic Realm stat/10) derived like Base Hit Points from Temp CO/10 always helped establish a floor of PP in my games that RMC would later adopt, too...

I vaguely remember us doing something like that too, before we moved to the PP Dev skill... was that from one of the Companions?
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

'Every party needs at least one insane person.'  --Aspen of the Jade Isle

Offline EltonJ

  • Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 378
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: "Free" Spells
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2022, 11:51:14 AM »
Optional rules like Base PP(Magic Realm stat/10) derived like Base Hit Points from Temp CO/10 always helped establish a floor of PP in my games that RMC would later adopt, too...

I vaguely remember us doing something like that too, before we moved to the PP Dev skill... was that from one of the Companions?

I vaguely remember that it might be in RoCoI or RoCoIV.

Offline MisterK

  • Senior Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 656
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: "Free" Spells
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2022, 12:54:53 PM »
Optional rules like Base PP(Magic Realm stat/10) derived like Base Hit Points from Temp CO/10 always helped establish a floor of PP in my games that RMC would later adopt, too...

I vaguely remember us doing something like that too, before we moved to the PP Dev skill... was that from one of the Companions?

I vaguely remember that it might be in RoCoI or RoCoIV.
It was in RoCo II, section 3.1 "Power Point Development" - the first sub-section is "base power points" and exactly what you are talking about (stat/10, except that each such "base" power point used cost 20 exhaustion points), while the second sub-section is "Developed Power Points" (which was actually a setback compared to level-based PP unless the GM allowed double rank development per level, in which case it could be beneficial but was a significant DP sink - which casters didn't need).

Offline Hurin

  • Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,347
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: "Free" Spells
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2022, 01:27:32 PM »
Thanks for finding that! It did sound familiar.
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

'Every party needs at least one insane person.'  --Aspen of the Jade Isle

Offline Elrich Maltah

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: "Free" Spells
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2022, 10:49:18 AM »
In some sense, once a spell becomes free, it stops really being a spell, and becomes an ability. It's not so much that a mentalist is casting Presence as that they have developed a sense which, with a little concentration, permits them to be aware of minds.

In a sense, yes, but mechanically, you still have to roll for and face the chance of failure.

I got thinking about this again recently and wanted to follow up in response to these two points, specifically regarding the Preparation class of spells.

For reference, the descriptions of these spells are as follows:

Dervish (RMC2): "This spell allows the caster to prepare his body for the extreme rigors that use of this spell list will incur, and so use the spells on this list without destroying his own body. This spell must be cast prior to every utilization of the spells on this list. If it is not used, the caster will take a base 10 points of concussion damage/level of the spell cast, along with whatever other penalty which the GM deems appropriate."

Evil Magician (RMC4): "Prepares the caster's body for the rigors of any of the other spells on this list. If this spell is not cast immediately before one of these spells is cast, the caster will take D10 hits and an 'A' Disruption critical for each level of the spell."

Doppelganger (RMC7): "Caster must cast this before any Form spell on this list. If he does not, he will suffer 'A' Physical Alteration criticals until the total change equals 100%."

Now, referencing the two quotes above, my first question regards the amount of time required for the Preparation spell to take effect/be used. Considering that both Dervish and Evil Mentalist lists contain instantaneous spells, it seems unreasonable to assume that the Preparation spells would require a full round to manifest. If they did, what would be the point for the existence of instantaneous spells when they are intended for snap usage? I suppose one could "bank" the Preparation spell toward the chance that you will cast an instantaneous spell in the future, but, at best, that would relegate the instantaneous spells to be used once every other round.

The Dervish also has Extending Dances to consider, the first of which says "Allows the caster to double the duration of the next spell cast within 3 rounds." The text here makes sense in that Class III spells require two rounds of prep and one round to cast. However, the prerequisite Preparation spell (assuming another base spell is being cast) should technically pre-empt that, which would nullify the goal of the extension spell.

In order to resolve these issues, I would suggest the following, incorporating the comments from both jdale and Hurin. In the round when the end-result spell is to be cast, the player first rolls Base Spell Casting for the Preparation spell. If the Preparation roll is successful, the caster may continue to attempt to cast the end-result spell. If the Preparation roll fails, the caster may choose to either not cast the end-result spell or cast it with the penalty as described above.

This treats the Preparation spell more as an ability rather than a spell, which solves the round time problem for instantaneous spells (since you can't cast more than one spell per round) and the pre-empting problem of the extension spells, but it does not eliminate the need for preparation entirely, nor make it simply automatic.

Thoughts?

Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

  • Revered Elder
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,222
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: "Free" Spells
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2022, 02:48:34 PM »
Considering that both Dervish and Evil Mentalist lists contain instantaneous spells, it seems unreasonable to assume that the Preparation spells would require a full round to manifest. If they did, what would be the point for the existence of instantaneous spells when they are intended for snap usage?
You may cast such spells in one round with no need for preparation (the definition of a RM2 "instantaneous" spell…) in an urgent situation, without spending one round to cast the Preparation spell. It's just that, in such a case, you suffer some… side effects.
The way I play it, a caster may spend time to prepare his body through the Preparation spells… or take the risk of casting the further spells in urgency, but then gets inflicted with the side effects.
The world was then consumed by darkness, and mankind was devoured alive and cast into hell, led by a jubilant 紗羽. She rejoiced in being able to continue serving the gods, thus perpetuating her travels across worlds to destroy them. She looked at her doll and, remembering their promises, told her: "You see, my dear, we succeeded! We've become legends! We've become villains! We've become witches!" She then laughed with a joyful, childlike laughter, just as she kept doing for all of eternity.