Topic: Targeting ( the Dealy skill, not the magical skill)

[TerryTee]

 There’s no profession skills in SM2, nor in RM2.

If one is worried about too high DP costs in order to create a sniper character, one could always make a new profession with better costs or give the character a background option suited for the purpose.

I supposed combining the skills might work as well. Let the cost be the same as the weapon cost, and make the skill weapon specific. Use the skill rank modifier as an OB bonus (or just to reduce range mods if you want) and use the number of ranks as a critical roll adjustment.

-Terry

[markc]

Yes I just had a chance to look at my SM2 Future Law this morning and I did not see them in there, again a limitation of the system.
MDC

[Warl]

Not sure I see that as a limitation of the system.

More a perception of the mind.

What difference is there in saYing "x" skill covers this, this and this. Or having a skill called profession X [insert gratuitous  x-men comment here] that covers the same thing?

I see no difference. As a gm I can add or take away from what a skill covers. I can add new skills or remove/disallow core skills as I see it fit my game.

The limitations we see are limitations in our own minds.

[markc]

(A little bit of a rant so please do not read if you might be offended) (You can also PM me and if you are offended I or another Mod will remove this post. No problems or hard feelings on my end) [size=78%]Warl;
  I think we are going to agree to disagree as I have played both RM2/SM2 and RMSS/SMP and IMHO there is a big limitation on the RM2/SM2 side of the equation in terms of profession creation ease, balance, ease of skill addition and subtraction, what a skill should cost in DP terms, (and I could go on).
 The person who taught me RM2 and wrote a companion pointed out many of RM2's problem to be during my into and he has made changes to his RM2 game where possible. The main reason he still uses RM2 is because he has since the 80's and the amount of time he has invested in his game world and the system.  
 But I also see the rabid fan base of RM2, which IMHO is in general a good thing up to a point as there are people who still think pong is the best video game out there.
 Does it sell books? Yes up until a point, but does it sell a lot of books? I do not know, but I do not think so.
 But I also hope that RMU is a big success and cannot wait to see what they have done with the new Beta. (I have no idea when it is coming out, just for anyone's info).


 I myself am always looking for a better system or looking for ways to adapt what ever system I prefer for the story I am telling, no reliving of the past, just "What is going to be the best at this point in time for this story."
MDC

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[Warl]

I don't disagree that rm2 wasn't perfect. My own game (s) are modified to my tastes. Though I did not find rmss's solution to these problems within my tastes.

You speak of limitations on dps.
I found just giving more dps tended to make characters even more cheese out than the base system.
Also, I and my fellow RM players found the secondary level of paper work ( categories then specific skills ) additionally tedious extra work.

Our solution was to give dps for all stats, but limit what they can be spent on by only being able to spend them on skills that use the stat. Reasoning and memory being the exception to this as general dps

This allowed players more dps to spend and helped create more rounded characters.

[markc]

Yes a fix I did as well was, adjusted the stat formula 75%/25% for RMSS.
MDC

[markc]

I am also always amazed at how dividing up the categories and applying DP to them has throw off many players.
 To this day it still just baffles me to no end.
MDC

[Warl]

I am also always amazed at how dividing up the categories and applying DP to them has throw off many players.
 To this day it still just baffles me to no end.
MDC

When you say dividing up the categories what do you mean by this?

[markc]

  Sorry, for the confusion. What I mean is that the main difference between RM2 and RMSS is the implementation of the category system and how many RM2 players do not like that.
MDC

[Warl]

Ahhh that doesn't throw us off, it just annoys us at the extra, and what we see as unnecessary, extra level of book keeping.

[intothatdarkness]

Ahhh that doesn't throw us off, it just annoys us at the extra, and what we see as unnecessary, extra level of book keeping.

+1 for this. I also found it much harder to adjust RMSS, and given the overall balance issues it just wasn't for me or my group at all.

[markc]

Over all balance issues in RMSS? What are you talking about?
MDC

[Warl]

it's all about preference, Some people like the one way and don't mind it's "difficulties" , and some like it the other way and don't mind it's difficulties.

BOTH systems have their "Balance" Issues. No need to discuss or bring them up. But trying to deny they exists or taking the position that one system is utterly better than the other is the position of conflict where you are attempting to either be insulting to the other side OR start something. 

We can easily discuss these questions (IE the OP) without resorting to Edition Snobbery Or Disparaging.

[markc]

 If you think I am being insulting by bring up RM2 ans SM2 short comings to your questions then I am sorry as that is not my intent, My intent is to show you its short comings so you can make your own improvements as you see fit.
 
 As for disparaging, are you saying my comments or opinions are of little worth as to your questions and comments?
MDC

[intothatdarkness]

Over all balance issues in RMSS? What are you talking about?
MDC

I never felt that the culture and training package stuff balanced well with what was already out there, and it certainly didn't lend itself to simple modification (at least in my view). Both systems had their strengths and weaknesses, and to us the weaknesses of RMSS outweighed the positives. Which has nothing to do with Targeting/Sniping, of course.

[Warl]

If you think I am being insulting by bring up RM2 ans SM2 short comings to your questions then I am sorry as that is not my intent, My intent is to show you its short comings so you can make your own improvements as you see fit.
 
 As for disparaging, are you saying my comments or opinions are of little worth as to your questions and comments?
MDC

Insulting in that sense? No. But what you find as Short comings, other do not necessarily. That is a matter of Opinion and taste... not fact. Those are your opinions and these are mine.

I have appreciated your comments as they have pertained to the Topic.

I am also always amazed at how dividing up the categories and applying DP to them has throw off many players.
 To this day it still just baffles me to no end.

this is this statement that comes closest to disparaging those on the other side of the RM fence.

Your preference for the category system is just that, Your preference, and your opinion that it is better.
By your statement you imply there is something wrong with the reasoning and capacity of those who don't agree with the category system.
And that is where you step wrong in discussions like these. That is where you lead a discussion towards a heated argument, where  tempers flare and insults get exchanged. Fortunately I am not of that temperament.

But I am asking that you respect that it is your opinion/preference and this is our opinion/preference.

The Discussion of What a skill does or entails has nothing to do with which system we use. In the end Both systems resolve skills the same way. It is only in character creation that the difference between the two systems really bears out. And for me... as far as the discussions go.. that is just peanut shells on the floor.

[Thom @ ICE]

Hey Warl, you are reading far more into what he said than what was actually said... you are assuming things and taking offense... let it go.


Markc, you took this thread way off topic... this was about a specific skill, not a comparison of systems and their limitations, shortcomings, or other aspects...  Please stay on topic.


Thanks guys - now feel free to continue, but if it doesn't have to do with Targeting, open a new thread please.
Thanks!

[Warl]

Thanks Thom, I wasn't taking offense though. I was seeing that, with what was being said, and others getting involved, that it could easily start to slide that direction. So I was basically asking what you just asked. Lets keep it to the topic without the discussion of the differences in the system needed, Or comments about peoples understanding/comprehesion of those differences.

[Warl]

What I was asking, was what the targeting skill does and if it was mean to to go hand in hand with Sniping, or replace it.

This was answered. Now I just have to decide whether or not to include it in my game.

The Idea of having the 1 skill "Sniping" Do both, that is modify OB AND modify Crit range, is one to consider.