Topic: Creatures and treasures RMSS vs RMFRP Treasure companion + Creatures and monster

[danskmacabre]

Hi, I have an opportunity to get the creatures and treasures book for RMSS.
I'm planning on running RMFRP tho.

Apart from there being 2 physical books, Treasure companion and Creatures and monsters for RMFRP, is there any difference between the 2 versions in actual content and can the RMSS version (Creatures and treasures) be easily used with RMFRP?

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

No differences in text or game mechanics content. RMSS versions work perfectly fine with RMFRP.

The only significant differences between RMSS and RMFRP C&M is that some artwork had to be replaced because it was Middle-earth artwork and copyright Tolkien Enterprises, and checking Brent Knorr's review of the 5% difference between RMSS and RMFRP.

The RMSS version has 320 pages whereas the RMFRP version only has 208 pages. Most of this space was gained by eliminating the basic statistics that were listed under each individual monster. This was information that was duplicated from the tables at the beginning of each section anyway. If nothing else, it solved the problem for some creatures like the Winged Panther where the information on the chart wasn’t the same as the information listed with the creature. After a quick look, it appears that most of the creatures are the same in both books, but I haven’t gone through them in a lot of detail.

You can find Brent's systematic review on http://www.icewebring.com/rmss-vs-rmfrp/ and in the archives of the Guild Companion.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[danskmacabre]

Cool thanks for the info.  I'll just get the RMSS version. It's good enough for me.

[Erik Sharma]

The RMSS version is named Creatures & Monsters not Creatures & Treasures.

I have them both the RMSS and RMFRP version on pdf and so far the only differences I have noticed are the ones Nicholas have already mentioned. At the gaming table I use my old RMSS copy I got ages ago and still holds together quite well.

[danskmacabre]

Ah perhaps the shop I was talking to has got an RM2 version of something..
Weren't they merged into one book years ago before RMSS and RMFRP?

[Erik Sharma]

Ah perhaps the shop I was talking to has got an RM2 version of something..
Weren't they merged into one book years ago before RMSS and RMFRP?

Well the Rolemaster Classic book is named Creatures and Treasures and so are the old supplement for RM2. I think there are 3 Creatures and Treasures books for RM2 and I found C&T II and C&T III available at RPG Now as pdfs. The first one is basically the same as the RM Classic Creatures and Treasures. So you are probably right on that part. 

Don't know anything about them being merged though. I know that Creatures and Monsters do have more monsters than the original Creatures and Treasures book so I am sure they gathered monsters from other supplements into that book.

[rdanhenry]

Creatures & Treasures is the RM2/RMC book that combines things you kill with things you take from the things you kill: very old school organization, there. RM2 had two additional volumes, as Chorpa, noted, also called Creatures & Treasures, but with a II and then a III added on.

Creatures & Monsters combines the C&T monsters (all of them, I think) with most of the C&T II monsters (the only thing I've noticed missing are Entities from Deep Space - I think because there were issues from them having originated in Dark Space, a different product, but I'm not sure about that... all I know for sure is, they make ideal Cthulhu Mythos substitutes for Rolemaster, so it's a shame they got dropped) and monsters from some other sources (a few monsters scattered here and there in the regular Rolemaster Companions of RM2). Entries are also somewhat expanded compared to C&T and also some adjustments were made in the transition to the RMSS rules. I don't think there are any C&T III monsters in C&M.

RMSS dealt with magic items separately, in Treasure Companion. RM2 had a roughly corresponding book, Alchemy Companion, but while there is some overlap, I am very glad to have both. If Alchemy Companion is available as a pdf, it is one of the RM2 books it would be worth having as a RMSS/FRP GM.

[danskmacabre]

OK thanks for all the info.
I'll probably just try and get Creatures and monsters for RMSS/RMFRP and the Treasure companion for RMSS/RMFRP as well.
That should be good enough for me for the time being.

[ob1knorrb]

Nice to see my articles still getting some use   I really should do a more detailed comparison of the various "Creatures and Monsters" and "Creatures and Treasures" books sort of like I did for Arms Law.

[Temujin]

RMSS dealt with magic items separately, in Treasure Companion. RM2 had a roughly corresponding book, Alchemy Companion, but while there is some overlap, I am very glad to have both. If Alchemy Companion is available as a pdf, it is one of the RM2 books it would be worth having as a RMSS/FRP GM.

In what ways does the Alchemy Companion complements the Treasure Companion?

[rdanhenry]

RMSS dealt with magic items separately, in Treasure Companion. RM2 had a roughly corresponding book, Alchemy Companion, but while there is some overlap, I am very glad to have both. If Alchemy Companion is available as a pdf, it is one of the RM2 books it would be worth having as a RMSS/FRP GM.

In what ways does the Alchemy Companion complements the Treasure Companion?

Both deal with non-game-mechanical issues, but while there is some overlap, TC does more to discuss economics, while AC is more useful in fleshing out the actual crafting environment. TC offers three variants of the traditional Spell Law Alchemist, one for each Realm, with some ability to customize. AC offers a range of distinctive "Alchemist" types, some of which would be very useful for someone attempting a pseudo-historical setting. The AC has a few additional ideas that might be incorporated into RMSS/FRP (the lists of fantasy materials in AC and TC differ, for example), but the historical alchemy/crafts information and the different, much more richly flavored, Professions are the main thing. AC is thicker and isn't filled with tables of treasures like TC, so it has more actual material and there is relatively little overlap between the books. AC has crit tables for Explosions, Steam, and Mangling (for getting caught in machinery). Also, AC has a table for "Magic Item Interaction" set up like a crit table, allowing GMs to control multiple magic item use with unpredictabiltiy. Some of the AC lists got revised into Castles and Ruins where they covered enhancing fortifications and easing building construction. Others have some overlap with Construct Companion, but there remains a significant number of lists (and a bunch of professions) that were never converted over in any way.

What remains the same is the basic item creation process, which I think has a number of flaws.

I would especially recommend Alchemy Companion for someone trying to do a low-magic, quasi-historical setting where the "historical alchemy" section would be useful and such Professions as the Adept and Charlatan could shine, but I find plenty that is inspirational even for my high-magic setting.

[Temujin]

Interesting.  I might give it a look.  Thank you.