Author Topic: How easy to enter Atmo Stealthily  (Read 2059 times)

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Offline markc

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How easy to enter Atmo Stealthily
« on: December 22, 2010, 10:21:58 AM »
How easy is it in SM:P to enter and land stealthily on a planet?


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Offline David Johansen

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Re: How easy to enter Atmo Stealthily
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2010, 08:10:40 PM »
As long as you shed your orbital velocity (no problem with reactionless thrusters and zero point) there's no super hot re-entry.  However objects in space are very bright and obvious on the infrared end of things.  And if you don't radiate heat you cook off and die pretty quickly.

So I guess the questions are "How self contained are SMP ships? How hot / bright are reactionless thrusters?  How long can a ship contain its waste heat for before becoming unlivable?  How good is stealth and cloaking?"

I think the only hint we have is that Privateers can still make a run for Defiance to help the resistance.

So, I'm guessing the reactionless thrusters are pretty cold or long drifts are used, ships can contain their heat effectively for long enough to match the background radiation level, and cloaking or stealth is good enough to make blockade running possible.

Offline Marc R

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Re: How easy to enter Atmo Stealthily
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2010, 08:46:50 PM »
also, "Stealthy vs what" matters. . .

Mark 1 Eyeballs?

Ears?

Telescopes?

Radar?

Infrared?

Future tech scanners and sensors?
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Offline markc

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Re: How easy to enter Atmo Stealthily
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2010, 10:19:02 PM »
also, "Stealthy vs what" matters. . .

Mark 1 Eyeballs?

Ears?

Telescopes?

Radar?

Infrared?

Future tech scanners and sensors?


 I am not trying to be a jerk but yes. I would like peoples opinion on all of the above you have listed and any other people might have.


 I am of two minds, one is that you cannot do it unless you use lots of decoys and the other is in SM:P you can manage heat and speed so you you can essentially float to the surface. But I do not know.


Thanks
MDC
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Offline Marc R

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Re: How easy to enter Atmo Stealthily
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2010, 10:31:21 PM »
That wasn't a jerky reply at all!

Vs mark 1 eyeballs and ears, assuming you can slow re-entry so you're not a flaming meteor. . .You could sneak into the earth, early or pre WWII and never be discovered. . .and likely not until well into the cold war you could just come in over the congo, amazon, sahara, either pole or mid ocean in a lot of places and either not be detected, or be detected and dismissed.

As radar coverage increased, you'd need to be more careful and pick holes. . .if you can sense their sensors further out than they could detect you you'd likely be able to find holes to settle into. . .even on modern earth there are places not watched that carefully.

Once you get a global network of geosynchronous orbiting platforms watching for fast moving objects on radar (like missiles) or infrared flashes (like missile launches) you'd need to be more careful. (If they mostly look down, you might be able to sneak up on one, co opt or slightly damage it, then re-enter the hole that created).

Speculating from here on future tech

The next step would be orbital platforms watching out. . .

the next step from that would be solar orbiting platforms watching the whole solar ecliptic.

The next step from there would be sensors above and below the ecliptic watching down into it and out from it.

From there a sphere of sensors watching the whole area inside the Oort.

Then a whole sphere watching from outside the Oort.

Ground based sensors, would be limited by horizons, and except on perfect cue ball planets by masking be terrain features. . .and unless you build mid ocean platforms or keep up a rotating patrol of scanner ships, total coverage is hard to tighten over large oceans. . .much easier to launch orbital platforms.

From there, it's quality of sensors vs quality of stealth, how well integrated the sensors are, and how smart/skilled the people or AIs watching them are.
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Offline markc

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Re: How easy to enter Atmo Stealthily
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2010, 03:06:36 PM »
Mark R;
 Thanks for the input and I guess what I struggle whit the most is the tec factor vs the tec factor and specialized equipment. IE such as a stealth shield or unique faction equipment and if I should have it work in atmo or what should I do if I want it to work in atmo?


Thanks
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Offline Marc R

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Re: How easy to enter Atmo Stealthily
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2010, 06:36:30 PM »
Sneaking usually either is passive, in damping your signature, or active, in spoofing their sensors.
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Offline markc

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Re: How easy to enter Atmo Stealthily
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2010, 09:08:50 PM »
Sneaking usually either is passive, in damping your signature, or active, in spoofing their sensors.


 I agree.
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Offline providence13

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Re: How easy to enter Atmo Stealthily
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2010, 11:57:30 PM »
one is that you cannot do it unless you use lots of decoys

I like this one. Pick a time when there is too much to look at, or focus the attention somewhere else.
Maybe the tech and coverage are so great that you will be seen. But they might not realize it's you, until later. By then, you've already landed or have come and gone.
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Offline markc

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Re: How easy to enter Atmo Stealthily
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2010, 02:11:16 AM »
one is that you cannot do it unless you use lots of decoys

I like this one. Pick a time when there is too much to look at, or focus the attention somewhere else.
Maybe the tech and coverage are so great that you will be seen. But they might not realize it's you, until later. By then, you've already landed or have come and gone.


 That is the trick of active ECM, too much noise or interference to tell actually where you are. But they do know something is there, so they can try and get closer or get some eyes on target to help out.


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Offline David Johansen

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Re: How easy to enter Atmo Stealthily
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2010, 12:18:04 AM »
Again, I think the example of the Tulgar world Defiance behind Jeronian lines but getting occasional loads of smuggled supplies pretty clearly indicates stealth is possible.

Really since there are force fields the answer may lie along those lines.  Normally one would think a force field is reflective or even radiant, but suppose for a moment that they can be designed to absorb energy.  Then you could have very effective non-radiant stealth that is somewhat dependant on the capacity of your super capacitors.

Offline Marc R

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Re: How easy to enter Atmo Stealthily
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2010, 12:43:55 AM »
This essentially boils down to the same logic as "How hard is it to sneak into an enemy camp?"

How good is the defensive perimeter?

How good is the penetration plan?

What are the spotting and sneaking bonuses?

Get your dice rolling.
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Offline RandalThor

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Re: How easy to enter Atmo Stealthily
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2010, 12:17:20 PM »
You really need to read the Old Man's War series, they go into this a little bit.

Basically, I think the best way to get to a planets surface from space is to make those looking for you to think that you are something else entirely. That way they are still looking for you while you are on the surface doing whatever you are there to do.
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Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: How easy to enter Atmo Stealthily
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2010, 08:05:04 PM »
Quote
Basically, I think the best way to get to a planets surface from space is to make those looking for you to think that you are something else entirely. That way they are still looking for you while you are on the surface doing whatever you are there to do.

Which seems to imply that it would be easier on technologically advanced worlds, as they'd have more junk in space for you to a) hide behind, and b) imitate.

Quote
You really need to read the Old Man's War series, they go into this a little bit.

"The Last Dancer" by Daniel Keys Moran also has a good example of "stealth" in an environment where there's really no place to hide and nothing to hide behind.
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Offline markc

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Re: How easy to enter Atmo Stealthily
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2010, 10:04:43 PM »
Thanks for the book recommendation I will check it out.


MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
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