Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => HARP => Topic started by: bunny on September 23, 2007, 09:08:16 PM
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The other GM in our group made a comment on the way home last night that one of the distinguishing features of HARP was the ridiculous ease with which wounds can be healed. We pretty much agreed that, overall, that's a good thing - the sitting around for weeks recovering from broken bones after battles is not the definition of "High Adventure" after all.
One thing we have been struggling with, though, is the ease with which wounds can be healed in battle. We speculated on introducing a change to the minor and major healing spells requiring a casting time of minutes rather than seconds (the justification being it was some kind of ritual, rather than a few second incantation). I'd be curious on any thoughts regarding this change? Neither of us particularly care that HARP has an episodic feel - if you survive the battle you spring up, good-as-new, in the next scene. The ability of someone "in the second row" to heal half hits, cure bleeding and mend broken bones in a few seconds mid-combat is what we find removes some of the tension in combat.
Any opinions either for or against?
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Just say that each of the spells "Major Healing" and "Minor Healing" can only be cast once per day on a character. Other systems use this rule (GURPS springs to mind). Also, for the healing herbs, if they're used more than once per day they become poisonous.
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You're right. But then again my encounters rarely allow for "battle lines". As GM, I try to force as many of my encounters on "open ground" where healers and other spell casters might be running for their lives instead of leisuring casting spells. That being said, HackNSlash makes the powerful healing spells almost necessary. A few thrown daggers, spears and axes might cramp the healers style as well. And increase the numbers. Its High Adventure afterall eh?
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Hi All - first post here :)
I have to agree with bunny. We had the same problem with Healing (and we used HnS). Our battles were deadly, but as long as the healer was alive she just fixed everybody immediately. It was a bit boring. After introducing the time aspect to the healing, the players needed a few more fate points during battle and they started to think about strategy before battles. After more than 1 year "play-testing" in EoH, I would say the rules below were perfect for this setting. However, I think it always depends on your setting and style of play.
Major Healing:
- Hits regenerate at 10HP per minute.
- Bleedings will stop immediately but will reopen if the character does not wait a time equal to the bleeding per round in minutes.
- Penalties need one minute for each -10 (or fraction) to heal.
- One fractured bone needs 10 minutes to mend.
- Death Criticals need 30 minutes of total rest to recover (inactivity).
- The other scaling options need another 5 minutes for Light, 10 minutes for Medium and 30 minutes for Severe injuries.
- The time for different options is parallel, while the time for the same option, but for different wounds is cumulative.
Minor Healing (Option 1 - this is the one we use):
- Hits regenerate at 10HP per hour.
- Bleedings will stop immediately but will reopen if the character does not wait a time equal to the bleeding per round in hours.
- Penalties need one hour for each -10 to heal.
- Death Criticals need 12 hours of total rest to recover.
Minor Healing (Option 2 - I think I would use this one in future campaigns):
- Hits regenerate at 1HP per minute.
- Bleedings will stop immediately but will reopen if the character does not wait a time equal to 10 times the bleeding per round in minutes.
- Penalties need one minute for each -1 to heal.
- Death Criticals need 4 hours of total rest to recover.
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Hi WoeRie,
I like your ideas a lot - I'll definitely limit healing to one casting per wound at any 1 time (otherwise the scaling options make no sense, as characters could just recast with a different option every time they do the spell), but I'd like to limit it more.
The Healer in my group argued that Power Points already limits (major) healing sufficiently, but I'd like a bit more strategic thinking before the group gets into a fight, and your ideas seem a very good way to do that.
Did you ever try to limit healing spells per target to X a day (X being something between 1 and 3, asking me)? I thought that a very easy way to solve it, and it doesn't seem to farfetched to me ("the body doesn't accept the mana, it still seems to be too nourished with it").
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Did you ever try to limit healing spells per target to X a day (X being something between 1 and 3, asking me)? I thought that a very easy way to solve it, and it doesn't seem to farfetched to me ("the body doesn't accept the mana, it still seems to be too nourished with it").
No, I haven?t tried that, but I don't want to limit the overall power of the healing spell (what your suggestion would do). The only thing I think as overpowered is healing during combat (over and over again). This resulted in a few stupid frenzy situations during games in the past and the battles lost a lot of its tension. With the time rule the players have to think what they do before they charge (if possible), but they can still heal themselves afterwards without loosing a lot of time. I would be afraid that with the daily rule they have to overnight at a safe-place after each battle and this would rather interrupt the flow of the game.
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One of the things I like about HARP is that it did simplify healing with one spell as opposed to RM where you need 4 lists.
However if you are going for a more RM feel to healing, rather than limiting the number of castings on a wound, it would seem better to modify the healing spells by adding a recovery time as mentioned in WoRie's initial post. This time could then be shortened as a scaling option essentially mimicing an RM healing list.
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[quote
Major Healing:
- Hits regenerate at 10HP per minute.
- Bleedings will stop immediately but will reopen if the character does not wait a time equal to the bleeding per round in minutes.
- Penalties need one minute for each -10 (or fraction) to heal.
- One fractured bone needs 10 minutes to mend.
- Death Criticals need 30 minutes of total rest to recover (inactivity).
- The other scaling options need another 5 minutes for Light, 10 minutes for Medium and 30 minutes for Severe injuries.
- The time for different options is parallel, while the time for the same option, but for different wounds is cumulative.
Minor Healing (Option 1 - this is the one we use):
- Hits regenerate at 10HP per hour.
- Bleedings will stop immediately but will reopen if the character does not wait a time equal to the bleeding per round in hours.
- Penalties need one hour for each -10 to heal.
- Death Criticals need 12 hours of total rest to recover.
Minor Healing (Option 2 - I think I would use this one in future campaigns):
- Hits regenerate at 1HP per minute.
- Bleedings will stop immediately but will reopen if the character does not wait a time equal to 10 times the bleeding per round in minutes.
- Penalties need one minute for each -1 to heal.
- Death Criticals need 4 hours of total rest to recover.
Awesome - I'm gonna steal this immediately. :)
Can I ask why you're thinking of changing to option 2 for minor healing? I like the look of option 1 as it seems to provide a real distinction between a "proper healer" with major healing and someone who just dabbles.
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Hey WoeRie, I like this. It makes getting a wound mean something, even in a world where healing magic exists.
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Can I ask why you're thinking of changing to option 2 for minor healing? I like the look of option 1 as it seems to provide a real distinction between a "proper healer" with major healing and someone who just dabbles.
I also think that it is a good thing that the gap between Minor and Major Healing is increased, without removing the live saving aspect of Minor Healing. However, I think more important is that the game flow is not interrupted because of wounds and I?m a bit afraid that this would be the case if nobody with Major Healing is in the party. Think that after each battle the party has to rest for a couple of hours to stop bleeding to death (remember I use the H&S table), maybe in the middle of a dungeon?
But I think best would be to adjust it to your campaign, at least for dungeon crawls it could be a disaster. In my Echoes campaign Minor Healing is currently only used to stop bleeding while the Vivamancer is busy. Later the Vivamancer heals the same wound again with Major Healing to minimize the off-time. :-\
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Can I ask why you're thinking of changing to option 2 for minor healing? I like the look of option 1 as it seems to provide a real distinction between a "proper healer" with major healing and someone who just dabbles.
I also think that it is a good thing that the gap between Minor and Major Healing is increased, without removing the live saving aspect of Minor Healing. However, I think more important is that the game flow is not interrupted because of wounds and IÂ’m a bit afraid that this would be the case if nobody with Major Healing is in the party. Think that after each battle the party has to rest for a couple of hours to stop bleeding to death (remember I use the H&S table), maybe in the middle of a dungeon?
But I think best would be to adjust it to your campaign, at least for dungeon crawls it could be a disaster. In my Echoes campaign Minor Healing is currently only used to stop bleeding while the Vivamancer is busy. Later the Vivamancer heals the same wound again with Major Healing to minimize the off-time. :-\
Cheers. I think I'll try option 1 (I'm sure someone in the party I GM will get major healing anyhow) I share your concern about the "We rest for 4 hours" bouts mid adventure, I think it should be manageable though. Always best to be tough on players first, then relax restrictions later rather than the other way round - they're much more likely to think I'm a swell guy that way. ;D
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Did you ever try to limit healing spells per target to X a day?
No, I haven?t tried that, but I don't want to limit the overall power of the healing spell (what your suggestion would do).
Yip, convinces me. I think I'll put my name on the list of people who go for your healing options :)
Thanks for the the ideas!
Jan
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I am thinking of stealing these rules myself. :)
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The other GM in our group made a comment on the way home last night that one of the distinguishing features of HARP was the ridiculous ease with which wounds can be healed. We pretty much agreed that, overall, that's a good thing - the sitting around for weeks recovering from broken bones after battles is not the definition of "High Adventure" after all.
One thing we have been struggling with, though, is the ease with which wounds can be healed in battle. We speculated on introducing a change to the minor and major healing spells requiring a casting time of minutes rather than seconds (the justification being it was some kind of ritual, rather than a few second incantation). I'd be curious on any thoughts regarding this change? Neither of us particularly care that HARP has an episodic feel - if you survive the battle you spring up, good-as-new, in the next scene. The ability of someone "in the second row" to heal half hits, cure bleeding and mend broken bones in a few seconds mid-combat is what we find removes some of the tension in combat.
Any opinions either for or against?
I agree.
But this is not a HARP problem. Every FRP system has this feature (DnD is the most notable obviously).
If you want your healer doing something else during battle I think the easiest way is indeed ajust the casting time. In fact I did that to my DnD group years ago.
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But this is not a HARP problem. Every FRP system has this feature (DnD is the most notable obviously).
If you want your healer doing something else during battle I think the easiest way is indeed ajust the casting time. In fact I did that to my DnD group years ago.
I've been pondering this - we never had the problem with rolemaster. I think it was because a severe wound usually required a whole bunch of spells rather than one "quick fix".
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Good point.
But you need a bunch of skills to do anything in RM, as they are way more specific.
I suggest you reflect if whats bothering you is the:
1) Healing during combat, or...
2) 1 Spell that can have mulktiple uses.
We can discuss it furter...
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Hi All - first post here :)
I have to agree with bunny. We had the same problem with Healing (and we used HnS). Our battles were deadly, but as long as the healer was alive she just fixed everybody immediately. It was a bit boring. After introducing the time aspect to the healing, the players needed a few more fate points during battle and they started to think about strategy before battles. After more than 1 year "play-testing" in EoH, I would say the rules below were perfect for this setting. However, I think it always depends on your setting and style of play.
Major Healing:
- Hits regenerate at 10HP per minute.
- Bleedings will stop immediately but will reopen if the character does not wait a time equal to the bleeding per round in minutes.
- Penalties need one minute for each -10 (or fraction) to heal.
- One fractured bone needs 10 minutes to mend.
- Death Criticals need 30 minutes of total rest to recover (inactivity).
- The other scaling options need another 5 minutes for Light, 10 minutes for Medium and 30 minutes for Severe injuries.
- The time for different options is parallel, while the time for the same option, but for different wounds is cumulative.
Minor Healing (Option 1 - this is the one we use):
- Hits regenerate at 10HP per hour.
- Bleedings will stop immediately but will reopen if the character does not wait a time equal to the bleeding per round in hours.
- Penalties need one hour for each -10 to heal.
- Death Criticals need 12 hours of total rest to recover.
Minor Healing (Option 2 - I think I would use this one in future campaigns):
- Hits regenerate at 1HP per minute.
- Bleedings will stop immediately but will reopen if the character does not wait a time equal to 10 times the bleeding per round in minutes.
- Penalties need one minute for each -1 to heal.
- Death Criticals need 4 hours of total rest to recover.
I like that a lot and will use it :)
(http://fr.jopping.com/images/box/32.gif)
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I like that a lot and will use it :)
Thanks for all the flowers :worthy:
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The one thing I'm not clear on is the base duration of each spell. Are you using the same durations as the originals (plus scaling), or did you come up with something else? (I don't have my books in front of me at the moment...)
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The casting time remains the same, it only takes time to heal.
Once the spell is cast and the healing process has started, the caster can continue doing other stuff, only the patient has to wait and stay calm.
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The casting time remains the same, it only takes time to heal.
Once the spell is cast and the healing process has started, the caster can continue doing other stuff, only the patient has to wait and stay calm.
It wasn't the casting time I was concerned about... it was the duration of the actual spell's curative effects, like say, five minutes per rank or something to that effect. I figured on putting some sort of limitation on there, since it would be kind of, well, pointless to lay about all day waiting for the spell to complete, wouldn't it?
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I'm not 100% sure if I understand what you mean. ???
The spell cures the same as before. So, during the spell casting the healer decides what to heal. He then calculates how long it will take that everything is cured (this will be a few minutes for major or hours for minor healing). If the patient interrupts the healing process for any reason it stops and there is no further curing until a new Healing spell is cast. Everything healed so far remain healed (except of bleeding, which reopen).
I hope this answers your question.
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I?ve been looking for something like this, I?ve been trying to conjure something similar, but now I don?t have to ;D
Thank mate, this is an awesome optional house-rule, well done!
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I'm not 100% sure if I understand what you mean. ???
The spell cures the same as before. So, during the spell casting the healer decides what to heal. He then calculates how long it will take that everything is cured (this will be a few minutes for major or hours for minor healing). If the patient interrupts the healing process for any reason it stops and there is no further curing until a new Healing spell is cast. Everything healed so far remain healed (except of bleeding, which reopen).
I hope this answers your question.
Okay, this is clearer now. Thanks much.
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What about healing potions... ???
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What about healing potions... ???
For spell potions it should be the same as the spells used to create them, but for formula potions I would allow immediate healing, same for some herbs.