Author Topic: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out  (Read 2076 times)

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Offline Tywyll

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Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« on: March 31, 2022, 06:13:36 AM »
ONe of the cool things about RM is the plethora of magic items, from small to epic.

However, while a +10 Sword seems fairly reasonable, some of the items seem like they would distort the system badly. Like, +50 or higher weapons/armor/etc. Cloaks of +80 to Hide. That sort of thing.

Have you given out items this potent? What, if any, effect did this have on the game?

Offline OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2022, 12:02:09 PM »
Is that relative to the power level of the game, though? I mean, Stormbringer is a god-killing weapon. That being said, Elric does fight beings of that order of power and does end having to kill gods, so...
The world was then consumed by darkness, and mankind was devoured alive and cast into hell, led by a jubilant 紗羽. She rejoiced in being able to continue serving the gods, thus perpetuating her travels across worlds to destroy them. She looked at her doll and, remembering their promises, told her: "You see, my dear, we succeeded! We've become legends! We've become villains! We've become witches!" She then laughed with a joyful, childlike laughter, just as she kept doing for all of eternity.

Offline Tywyll

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2022, 12:57:44 PM »
Is that relative to the power level of the game, though? I mean, Stormbringer is a god-killing weapon. That being said, Elric does fight beings of that order of power and does end having to kill gods, so...

Well, that's hard to say. I'm just talking about the items I've seen in official books and modules. I mean, I remember one module aimed at around 6th to 10th level and a villain had a cloak that was like +30 to stalk/hide, +80 in the wilderness. And this was only like a level 8 character and one that they end up (typically) fighting, so that item will almost certainly end up in the hands of the pcs. If you are running 'standard' RM...including random treasure per the C&T tables, it is possible to randomly find some crazy stuff (like Bilbo did on his first adventure I suppose).

Anyone give a 1st level rogue a +30 short sword of Evil Slaying? How'd that work out for the campaign?

Offline MisterK

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2022, 01:05:41 PM »
Anyone give a 1st level rogue a +30 short sword of Evil Slaying? How'd that work out for the campaign?
You can make it a object lesson. Give them the sword.

Then make sure *some people* know.

It's not "with great power comes great responsibility", rather "with great power come greater troubles".

I am fairly liberal with magic items, but powerful items have strings attached. After all, the characters are not the only people in the world who wish to be more powerful.

Offline Hurin

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2022, 01:24:36 PM »
I tend to be a bit stingy with high bonus items, as they can wreck a campaign's balance or economy. The people who wrote the Middle Earth modules (and the Lords of Middle Earth books) went a bit mental at times in giving out very high bonus items, and that became an issue in one campaign we ran. So I generally give out items of +5 in the first few levels, +10 say around 5th level, maybe +15 by 10th level or so.
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Online EltonJ

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2022, 02:24:50 PM »
Well, the power point multipliers were certainly strong enough.  I thought that the spell adders were also broken.

Offline Spectre771

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2022, 03:28:34 PM »
I have a self-balancing method to my GMing.  If the PC is going to be rewarded with a really nice item, it's usually because he took it from the corpse of his enemy. :)  If he wants to get that +10 Sword of Quickness, he has to beat the baddie who is wielding it.  In that sense, the opposing forces are at least somewhat equal to each other, but I like to go under the assumption that the PC party will win and get the goodies, so I try to make it at least a little challenging and interesting.

I'm not sure what the most powerful item I've given out (in terms of Potent, Most Potent, Artefact, etc. as ranked in C&T I, II, II and all the Companions).  I give out items in keeping with the power level of the PCs and the baddies to keep some balance.  It also depends on the PC using the items.  +10 Sword of Quickness, +15 Boots of Traceless Passing, and the +25 Cloak of Camouflage are more beneficial to different PCs for different reasons.  The PCs that have those items are between levels 4-6 so they are very beneficial for them.

I think one of my PCs received arguably the most powerful item ever rewarded in our groups over the 30+ years I've been gaming.  +25 Shield Slayer Battle Axe - Treat all AT as AT 1.  Magical Armour gets a RR vs. 50th level attack.

Add to that, about 3 years later (this was during the college time period of my gaming group), we had a massive 2-semester-twice-a-week epic campaign.  The reward for my Cavalier was a potion that increased the Temp and Potential values of the Prime Requisite Stats by D6.  He ended up with Str 108 and Con 102 which gave him choices from the Innate Stat Abilities Table.

Con: Tolerance - May take 150% of total hit points before becoming unconscious
Str: Shocking Blows - All melee hits yield double concussion damage  (couple this with a 2H Battle Axe hitting on the AT 1 table and you have heavy damage.)
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Offline MisterK

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2022, 12:58:43 AM »
Con: Tolerance - May take 150% of total hit points before becoming unconscious
This is a *very* dangerous perk, because it does not change the death point, only the unconsciousness point. Sure, you can fight longer, but if you fall unconscious, you will likely die much sooner - in some cases, you might die *before* becoming unconscious.

Quote
Str: Shocking Blows - All melee hits yield double concussion damage  (couple this with a 2H Battle Axe hitting on the AT 1 table and you have heavy damage.)
Add Adrenal Strength and watch the fireworks.

Offline Tywyll

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2022, 10:48:13 AM »
Anyone give a 1st level rogue a +30 short sword of Evil Slaying? How'd that work out for the campaign?

You can make it a object lesson. Give them the sword.

Then make sure *some people* know.

It's not "with great power comes great responsibility", rather "with great power come greater troubles".

I am fairly liberal with magic items, but powerful items have strings attached. After all, the characters are not the only people in the world who wish to be more powerful.

Oh, I'm aware of all that. I'm more interested in hearing how the high value items in the modules themselves have impacted people's campaigns.

Offline Druss_the_Legend

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2022, 12:47:38 PM »
From C&T1
The Whispering Sword
+5 magical shortsword. Floats in water. Whispers when it is swung. Uses 2H Sword weapon table.
Crazy powerful with frenzy or adrenal move STR.
my campaign is low magic so this sword has been borderline OP and at times def OP!

Offline Hurin

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2022, 01:06:53 PM »

I'm more interested in hearing how the high value items in the modules themselves have impacted people's campaigns.

The one example I would mention was in one of the Middle Earth modules. We were only level 2 or 3 when two characters in the party found magical armor. One protected as something like AT 18 but encumbered only as AT 2 or 3. The other was similar. That basically wrecked game balance in combat as well as the game economy. My character never needed any other armor for the rest of the campaign, and was walking around in plate armor that did not encumber him by level 3.

After that, I got really cautious about those sorts of items (i.e. encumbers as light, but protects as heavy).

(I should note that I can't give exact numbers for the ATs because we were converting from RM2 to RMU, and I was a player, so I just know the RMU numbers: it protected like AT 9, but encumbered as only AT 2 or 3 in RMU terms. It was Fell Beast hide.)
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

'Every party needs at least one insane person.'  --Aspen of the Jade Isle

Offline Mansquatch62

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2022, 03:33:44 PM »
I once gave out the Lich Crown from RMC I as an intellectual exercise.
I posited that giving it to a specific player would have absolutely no effect on game balance since the player was ineffective with his character.
I was correct.
(It should have seriously jacked up the game. It was reminiscent of Thomas Covenant with the white gold ring in the first book.)

Offline Hurin

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2022, 05:20:04 PM »
I once gave out the Lich Crown from RMC I as an intellectual exercise.
I posited that giving it to a specific player would have absolutely no effect on game balance since the player was ineffective with his character.
I was correct.
(It should have seriously jacked up the game. It was reminiscent of Thomas Covenant with the white gold ring in the first book.)

Ah, the Lich Crown. My character got that too, but it was at the end of the campaign, after we'd taken out Sulthon Ni'shaang, and it was the one time we played an evil party, so basically he took over Dragonlord's citadel in Northern Jaiman. It was very cool, but probably would have been an issue if we had kept playing those characters.
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

'Every party needs at least one insane person.'  --Aspen of the Jade Isle

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2022, 10:55:53 PM »
Best item I've had as a player.  We used a Rune system for weapons that I don't delve into, but the following was the result.

2H Sword of Kiron +40
+5 to all physical Moving Maneuvers
Fumble Range 1-3
Unbreakable
Resist Light (RR bonus as spell)
Secondary Electricity Crits (two degrees less)
Once per day will dispell any spell cast on wielder (will function subconciously if needed)
Once per day +10 levels to resist (one round)
Once per day Equal Holy Crit
Once per day Equal Fire Crit
Once per day Equal Cold Crit
Once per day 'Boon' (use either die rolled as primary for a critial hit)
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Offline Tywyll

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2022, 04:30:46 AM »
Best item I've had as a player.  We used a Rune system for weapons that I don't delve into, but the following was the result.

2H Sword of Kiron +40
+5 to all physical Moving Maneuvers
Fumble Range 1-3
Unbreakable
Resist Light (RR bonus as spell)
Secondary Electricity Crits (two degrees less)
Once per day will dispell any spell cast on wielder (will function subconciously if needed)
Once per day +10 levels to resist (one round)
Once per day Equal Holy Crit
Once per day Equal Fire Crit
Once per day Equal Cold Crit
Once per day 'Boon' (use either die rolled as primary for a critial hit)

That sounds pretty intense! Did it harm the game?

Offline Tywyll

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2022, 04:33:02 AM »

I'm more interested in hearing how the high value items in the modules themselves have impacted people's campaigns.

The one example I would mention was in one of the Middle Earth modules. We were only level 2 or 3 when two characters in the party found magical armor. One protected as something like AT 18 but encumbered only as AT 2 or 3. The other was similar. That basically wrecked game balance in combat as well as the game economy. My character never needed any other armor for the rest of the campaign, and was walking around in plate armor that did not encumber him by level 3.

After that, I got really cautious about those sorts of items (i.e. encumbers as light, but protects as heavy).

(I should note that I can't give exact numbers for the ATs because we were converting from RM2 to RMU, and I was a player, so I just know the RMU numbers: it protected like AT 9, but encumbered as only AT 2 or 3 in RMU terms. It was Fell Beast hide.)

Yeah, that's the kind of thing I'm curious about. You see lots of those in MERP/Shadowworld. Never thought about them being too bad compared to something with big numbers. It seems like it mostly just saves you DP you would otherwise spend on skills, right? But I can see it being a bit disappointing to have your 'end game gear' right at the beginning of the campaign.

Though, I guess that's MERP all over (*cough* Mithril Shirt *cough*).

Offline Hurin

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2022, 08:47:57 AM »
Never thought about them being too bad compared to something with big numbers. It seems like it mostly just saves you DP you would otherwise spend on skills, right? But I can see it being a bit disappointing to have your 'end game gear' right at the beginning of the campaign.


Yes, it was that, plus the fact that the characters who got the armor were very OP compared to the remaining members of the party for the next five or so levels. Characters in RM of course gradually get stronger, one aspect of that being able to wear heavier armor. You're not supposed to be able to wear AT 9 (banded plate) at level 3; it is equivalent to finding a ring that gives+30 DB in a full 360 degree arc at level 3. Creatures that were very threatening to the rest of the party were pretty trivial to the lucky characters, so encounters were pretty messed up. Balance was off, and we started to feel that combats were not much of a challenge anymore. 
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

'Every party needs at least one insane person.'  --Aspen of the Jade Isle

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2022, 02:52:39 PM »
Best item I've had as a player.  We used a Rune system for weapons that I don't delve into, but the following was the result.

2H Sword of Kiron +40
(etc.)

That sounds pretty intense! Did it harm the game?

No, we were in the 15-17 level range at the end and I was playing a Rogue rather than a pure Fighter which makes a little difference, so while I was super versatile I wasn't quite a 'fighting machine'.
I usually only pulled that sword out if we were fighting something particularly nasty as I preferred to use a Rapier/Whip combo (those were in the +25 OB range with some side abilities).

Also, if you take a look at the magic items in MERP that stuff is relatively tame. lol
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Offline Spectre771

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2022, 04:02:07 PM »
Con: Tolerance - May take 150% of total hit points before becoming unconscious
This is a *very* dangerous perk, because it does not change the death point, only the unconsciousness point. Sure, you can fight longer, but if you fall unconscious, you will likely die much sooner - in some cases, you might die *before* becoming unconscious.

Quote
Str: Shocking Blows - All melee hits yield double concussion damage  (couple this with a 2H Battle Axe hitting on the AT 1 table and you have heavy damage.)
Add Adrenal Strength and watch the fireworks.

The same PC was awarded Gloves of Might - for the first 5 rounds of melee, PC deals 2x damage.  Now combine that with the already 2x damage he does normally and he deals 4x damage for 5 rounds with Battle Axe vs. AT1.   Not sure if I could still add Adrenal Strength... x8 damage?

He also has a Battle Totem that negates all round of stun received which helps quite a bit with survivability.  Just need to avoid the deadly crits, but a deadly crit can happen to any PC at any time. 
If discretion is the better valor and
cowardice the better part of judgment,
let's all be heroes and run away!

Offline MisterK

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Re: Most Powerful Magic Item You've Given Out
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2022, 11:55:31 PM »
The same PC was awarded Gloves of Might - for the first 5 rounds of melee, PC deals 2x damage.  Now combine that with the already 2x damage he does normally and he deals 4x damage for 5 rounds with Battle Axe vs. AT1.   Not sure if I could still add Adrenal Strength... x8 damage?
Not necessarily.
First, effects are not cumulable if they are from the same source. This goes down to enchantment (the spell cast to provide the strength enchantment).
Second, how the multipliers are handled together is an open question. You have three options :
- multiply them all together ( x2x2x = x8, which is the strongest option).
- adding them (x2 + x2 +x2 = x6)
- consider that each multiplier level is an increment and add the increments together to determine the final result. So if x2 is the first increment, x2 three times would be three increments, for a x4 final result. If x2 is the *second increment* (the first being x1.5), then x2 three times would be six increments, for a x6 final result. And so on.

This is usually because higher increments are exponentially more costly and powerful, and it would be too easy to just stack small increments instead of using a single large one - the above restrictions aim at preserving some kind of balance.