Topic: Director's Briefing - 4th July 2012

[Ecthelion]

Even if ICE can create a system that both RM2(etc) and RMSS(etc) camps could agree on, how many of them actually need a new version of RM?

For me a new version should add some new stuff that would enrich my games, like new professions, new combat styles, it should fix some issues the rules have and which I (in part) fixed with my house rules, and it should of course keep the stuff that I like. This is IMO not impossible. And if other long-time players don't expect too much more, then perhaps they will buy the new version.

[Cory Magel]

But, are we on these forums representative of the typical RM user?

And are there enough "typical RM users" left to sustain the line? Or does it need to appeal to a larger base?

I think it HAS to appeal to a larger base to survive as a viable 'company'.  So is the goal to "Keep the memory alive" and not worry too much about good profits, or is there a serious effort to bring in new blood?  Because, imo, the goal of making existing users happy and bringing in new blood have quite different approaches.  I really don't think both are simultaneously possible when it comes to RM.

[talsharien]

The game will always struggle to appeal to a larger audience due to the nature of the d20 engine. There is a huge appeal to playing and games-mastering a game that has a huge amount of source material to support it. The trick is getting people to play (and a gm that understands the rules also). I switched to RM in 1991 after a spell of playing d20 games. I actually found spacemaster first and was blown away by the complexity and realism. A few months later I converted my gaming group to RM and I ran a campaign for about 12 years. My RM experience ended in about 2005 after an epic scenario ended with a PC killing the main bad game with one lucky dice roll. I ended the campaign and took shelter in d20 for the next few years. I have more recently come back to Iron Crown and begun running HARP which I believe offers a lot of RM (but runs a lot faster). I still use my RM books for extra rules and am really looking forward to a new edition.
RM unfortunately will never appeal to the masses, it is simply too complex for some gamers to get their heads round. Release the game as Print on Demand and keep costs down, this for me is the way forward. I will buy every book RM release (as I always have).

[Thom @ ICE]

Oh you can be sure that the products will be released print on demand, but first they'll come out as pdf's so that we can make sure we get it right before official hard copies are printed. 

As for whether Rolemaster will appeal to the masses, the loyal fans, or just a handful - I'd have to go with what John Seal and Nicholas have said so far...  it's not going to be something all new - it's still going to be Rolemaster.  It is expected to appeal to the veteran gamers, especally those who enjoy a bit more realism and detail.  That's what Rolemaster has always done, and this is Rolemaster... Is it going to reach out and take over the entirety of the rpg market? While that would be great, I don't think anyone is expecting that.  We're hoping to bring together a splintered fanbase, reach out to gamers who had difficulty figuring out which RM was going to get supported, and provide a stable, yet modular system that is conducive to house rules - but most won't need them.

I expect it will reach out to new blood... but probably not the mass audience.  Instead it will reach out to those who want more out of their rpg game... just like when Rolemaster began and offered a game with more 30 years ago.   We hope you'll all enjoy it, and similar to then... the legacy of Rolemaster will once again grow throughout the industry.

[Erik Sharma]

I for one fully support the idea of the new RMU. I am divided between RM2/C and RMSS/FRP liking some aspects of both but really disliking other aspects of each game. And for someone who hasn't been there from the beginning to gather all the options from the Companions and such to build the game I like, I do welcome the RMU.

Personally I prefer RM2/C but my players always vote for the RMSS/FRP system everytime we are about start a game. So even within our group we are splintered.

[Fnord]

Oh you can be sure that the products will be released print on demand, but first they'll come out as pdf's so that we can make sure we get it right before official hard copies are printed. 

As for whether Rolemaster will appeal to the masses, the loyal fans, or just a handful - I'd have to go with what John Seal and Nicholas have said so far...  it's not going to be something all new - it's still going to be Rolemaster.  It is expected to appeal to the veteran gamers, especally those who enjoy a bit more realism and detail.  That's what Rolemaster has always done, and this is Rolemaster... Is it going to reach out and take over the entirety of the rpg market? While that would be great, I don't think anyone is expecting that.  We're hoping to bring together a splintered fanbase, reach out to gamers who had difficulty figuring out which RM was going to get supported, and provide a stable, yet modular system that is conducive to house rules - but most won't need them.

I expect it will reach out to new blood... but probably not the mass audience.  Instead it will reach out to those who want more out of their rpg game... just like when Rolemaster began and offered a game with more 30 years ago.   We hope you'll all enjoy it, and similar to then... the legacy of Rolemaster will once again grow throughout the industry.

If this is your target audience, take into account that most of them (us) are not teenagers anymore and we don't have as much free time as we used to. My point being that a line of adventure modules, old school style (MERP-like), will sell like hotcakes. Make them generic, so they can be fitted into any home-grown campaign, and you will have something that RM have been lacking since the good old MERP days.

Just my two cents

[Arioch]

If this is your target audience, take into account that most of them (us) are not teenagers anymore and we don't have as much free time as we used to. My point being that a line of adventure modules, old school style (MERP-like), will sell like hotcakes.

This.

[Thom @ ICE]

All I can say to that is....  (Emphasis is mine)

The vanguard of the new Rolemaster edition will be five books - Arms Law, Spell Law, Character Law, Creatures, and Treasures. In due course, these will be followed by other products such as a multi-adventure set, a new Campaign Law, a Rolemaster System Handbook for Shadow World, and many more to come.

And by the way - Shadow World will be moving to the new Rolemaster.... Cyradon will be available for the new Rolemaster....  We understand that we're dealing with those who don't have as much time as we did when we were young. We're hoping to give you adventures, settings, and even software support to help you get back to the gaming table with your friends.  For those of you with friends who are around the world.... we'll be getting Fantasy Grounds updated to new Rolemaster also.  (And we've got a lot of other stuff going on for our other product lines...) 

[Fnord]

All I can say to that is....  (Emphasis is mine)

The vanguard of the new Rolemaster edition will be five books - Arms Law, Spell Law, Character Law, Creatures, and Treasures. In due course, these will be followed by other products such as a multi-adventure set, a new Campaign Law, a Rolemaster System Handbook for Shadow World, and many more to come.

And by the way - Shadow World will be moving to the new Rolemaster.... Cyradon will be available for the new Rolemaster....  We understand that we're dealing with those who don't have as much time as we did when we were young. We're hoping to give you adventures, settings, and even software support to help you get back to the gaming table with your friends.  For those of you with friends who are around the world.... we'll be getting Fantasy Grounds updated to new Rolemaster also.  (And we've got a lot of other stuff going on for our other product lines...)

Fantastic!!
I'm so impatient for the new edition that I will eat my own arm.
I want to beta test now!!

[Thom @ ICE]

Glad to hear it... just don't go eating that arm yet.  You need it to roll the dice. 

[gandalf970]

I am very excited about this.  I have $250 saved especially for Rolemaster and it is burning a hole in my bank account!!

[JohnD]

Oh you can be sure that the products will be released print on demand, but first they'll come out as pdf's so that we can make sure we get it right before official hard copies are printed. 

As for whether Rolemaster will appeal to the masses, the loyal fans, or just a handful - I'd have to go with what John Seal and Nicholas have said so far...  it's not going to be something all new - it's still going to be Rolemaster.  It is expected to appeal to the veteran gamers, especally those who enjoy a bit more realism and detail.  That's what Rolemaster has always done, and this is Rolemaster... Is it going to reach out and take over the entirety of the rpg market? While that would be great, I don't think anyone is expecting that.  We're hoping to bring together a splintered fanbase, reach out to gamers who had difficulty figuring out which RM was going to get supported, and provide a stable, yet modular system that is conducive to house rules - but most won't need them.

I expect it will reach out to new blood... but probably not the mass audience.  Instead it will reach out to those who want more out of their rpg game... just like when Rolemaster began and offered a game with more 30 years ago.   We hope you'll all enjoy it, and similar to then... the legacy of Rolemaster will once again grow throughout the industry.

If this is your target audience, take into account that most of them (us) are not teenagers anymore and we don't have as much free time as we used to. My point being that a line of adventure modules, old school style (MERP-like), will sell like hotcakes. Make them generic, so they can be fitted into any home-grown campaign, and you will have something that RM have been lacking since the good old MERP days.

Just my two cents

Yes please.  Also, take into account the proliferation of VTT play (i.e. Fantasy Grounds) and have modules already converted for them.

[Thom @ ICE]

I can assure you that ICE is working on expanding the support of FG software.  We see this as a growing population of RPG gamers, and we want to make sure that ICE's supporters can find their favorite systems and settings ready and available for playing using the FG engine.  It won't happen overnight, but it will continue to be a key aspect of expanding our outreach.

[Artahyr]

I am a long term Rolemaster player, and given the revision of the system (that I'll buy in integrality, you have my word), I'd very much like to give suggestions to little details...

My main point : you should take some D20 system of attack into consideration. In this system, you can make, say, whirlwind slash, on peripherics enemies or triping attack, or disarm attacks... In RM, in the core system (even if that must be expanded in the companions somewhere), you only slash one on one, or at most, give 2 or 3 attacks, but still the same.

You should develop offensive attacks more deeply, not just boost the OB, and let the criticl hit do the rest. If you are, like, Gutts in Berserk with a giant 2Handed Sword and do a whirl wind slash to chop everything around, you should have the means to get to this point and do it 

Also, always in the same wave,  if you hit to kill, like, with a crossbow from the dark, it should be more possible to try to hit to kill - Even having the possibility to aim at certain body point... Head, neck, or sword bearing hand...

I admire your work, would be awesome to contribute in a small measure myself. Thank You!

[Nortti]

I am a long term Rolemaster player, and given the revision of the system (that I'll buy in integrality, you have my word), I'd very much like to give suggestions to little details...

My main point : you should take some D20 system of attack into consideration. In this system, you can make, say, whirlwind slash, on peripherics enemies or triping attack, or disarm attacks... In RM, in the core system (even if that must be expanded in the companions somewhere), you only slash one on one, or at most, give 2 or 3 attacks, but still the same.

You should develop offensive attacks more deeply, not just boost the OB, and let the criticl hit do the rest. If you are, like, Gutts in Berserk with a giant 2Handed Sword and do a whirl wind slash to chop everything around, you should have the means to get to this point and do it 

Also, always in the same wave,  if you hit to kill, like, with a crossbow from the dark, it should be more possible to try to hit to kill - Even having the possibility to aim at certain body point... Head, neck, or sword bearing hand...

I admire your work, would be awesome to contribute in a small measure myself. Thank You!

Let me be the first one to welcome you to the forums!

I have let the PCs to divide their OB and DB with a number of opponents. You could basically divide your OB of 120 to 4 opponents and have four attacks of OB 30. My players are not very keen to do this. Just sometimes a PC has divided his OB vs 2 opponents. To make such cleave and whirlwind attacks (basically attacking all on range) you just need to be very superior compared to your enemies. You know the kind of enemies that killing them is like stealing candy from children.

I tend to make fights a bit hard so usually there is no chance for such show-moves. Personally I think this types of moves are an influence of video-games where you spin around several times like a hammer thrower with your great-axe and mow down a host of enemies.

In RM you have to also divide DB among opponents if you want to defend at all. If you have really good magic-armor and other items that grant you high enough DB vs all melee-attacks then you might run into the midst of the opponents and happily sweep 360 with your sword. Leaving your DB to 0 is usually very dangerous if your opponents can fight back at all.

RM2 Arms Law (mine is 1989) has tables of advancement for martial artists. They grant strikes, sweeps and grapples vs multiple targets. 10th lvl kung-fu guy has OB 100, he can strike or sweep up to 3 targets in 180 degree angle and use 4 different ranks of attacks.
- Maybe there could be an optional variation of this for swordsmen etc? That could work as some kind of simplified "fighter progression table".

I guess that "crossbow from the dark part" would mean ambushing someone. Otherwise I cannot see the benefit of shooting in the darkness. If you make ambush then you can use the ambush skill and adjust the critical more to your liking.

[markc]

 For missile weapons and firearm type weapons there is snipping skill.
MDC

[Thom @ ICE]

For missile weapons and firearm type weapons there is snipping skill.
MDC

Actually snipping skill applies to using scissors.   Sniping skill can be applied to missile weapons and firearms.

[Artahyr]

Thank you ! I have thought of this point too, while writing it : martial arts are similar to what I thought. If they could enlarge casual attacks options of normal attacks like the martial arts, that could be more diversified.

And if you could integrate the attacks forms of disarms, tripping, or push the enemies, or even attacking multiple opponents, in form of boosting skills apparts (each or in categories), that would be great!

Yes, ambush and snipping, and Critical hit modifications are what I thought. Just putting everything I'm mentionning in the core rules of fighting, not too much lost in the options of the companions, would be great. Thank you very much for your answers!

[jdale]

Splitting your attack against multiple opponents has extra significance because you can only Parry opponents you attack. If one combatant is permitted to split while others aren't, you can easily end up with a big advantage by attacking people who aren't attacking you, and therefore can't parry you.

Not to say that such an ability couldn't be added (if so I would incorporate it into some kind of reworking weapon style type skill), but it's really important to balance these factors carefully.

[Nortti]

Splitting your attack against multiple opponents has extra significance because you can only Parry opponents you attack. If one combatant is permitted to split while others aren't, you can easily end up with a big advantage by attacking people who aren't attacking you, and therefore can't parry you.

Not to say that such an ability couldn't be added (if so I would incorporate it into some kind of reworking weapon style type skill), but it's really important to balance these factors carefully.

You have a valid point there about avoiding unfair advantages. We have done OB splitting only in situations where there was many attackers very close or around the PCs. PC was surrounded or a tight pack of pikemen was attacking. There was 4-5 attacks vs the PC. Means that there is not so much OB left after you have divided around 80 from your weapon skill to defense. For example you could make one hit of OB 100 or 2 attacks with OB 50. These attackers have trusted in numbers and all make a full OB attack anyway. Parrying is not so effective when you outnumber your opponent. Its just all-in with full OB.

In reality I think it is possible that you get to attack a person that does not detect you in time or doesnt have time to defend himself. It should always be a GM decision.

This kind of thing should sometimes happen when a fast character suddenly attacks from flank or side. "you lunge from your bush and see an opponent fighting with your soldier." Player decides to attack right away and GM can just decide or make roll to see if the opponent even notices anything.

If you like you might ask player to make a successful maneuver roll to see if he is fast enough. If player cannot be confident about being able to hit the opponent in the back then you should ask the player to decide OB and DB before the maneuver roll.

A new skill is not necessary for this. If you make a new skill for it, it basically means that PC/NPC that didnt use DP for this "skill" cannot do this. Making new skills often means that everyone can do less. Now all can have this "skill". If character is able to close in fast from flank or rear it is completely possible that opponent that is locked in combat doesnt have time to react.