Topic: Essence Companion for RMC?? What about?

[Fenrhyl Wulfson]

Does this herald arcane, channeling and mentalism companions for RMC?

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

maybe at some point...

[dutch206]

Write faster. 

[Nders]

Hmm I guess you could consider the various fighting schools and starter packages to be training packages and in that case you are right.
Also loving theoption zoo

[Dark Schneider]

It is probably not any news that I am not any fan of the Essence Companion...

I second that.
Please do a real major revision, the old one really isn't up to par with the rest of RM.

What really you don't like about EC?, IMO is one of the best books, I will do a fast review about its contents and what I'd revise (if needed) on it:

• Schools of magic: great, I like this very much, it can be used in other realms too, i.e. cleric could use nomenist (pray), animist/ranger could use herbalist, necromancer (those who choose necromancy as base list or makes the necromancer TP in level 1) could use corpist.
  Revise: I'd really don't have so much care of limiting the nomenist by language ranks, IMO the -75 to SCSM for "no voice" in enough, compare with somaticist with "no hand" + "no voice".
  For catalyst, special mention for herbalist, it would be great to have some guidelines, so users don't need a table to cast any spell, so any catalyst allows any spell, and change the PPs it gives to you (fresh flower, fresh leaf, semi-precious gem, gem, fresh body part, bleeding fresh body part, corpse body part, etc.) or something that the user can remember with no need of a table.
• Spell research: not covered by other books.
• Ritual magic: good explanation and developed, but with a power problem.
  Revise: The problem is that when you use it, you quickly see it is overpowered, you have cheap access to all non-combat spells, when the time of casting is not important. I'd change it to the original form, to change spell parameters out of usual. i.e. I use alchemy ritual to create items out of normal params, like a wand with a fire bolt (level 6), and create a fire rod; summon ritual can be used to summon a specific instead generic creature (a demon which you know the name), etc.
  This can be a complete thread for discussion, I think I began one for this some time ago.
• Familiars.
• Good professions.
• Good TPs.
• Good spell lists: They give access to other essence users to "lesser fire bolt" to use their DS skill. There are spells not covered by other books, like "elemental summon" (not for elementalists), "circle mastery" (great one), "magic staff", "wards", "glyphs".
  Revise: Maybe some fine tune for some spells, and clearly the Counterspells list, it should be moidified to use in 3 ways choosen at casting time:
  - specific spell (as currently), it automatically dispell the specific spell, but the "known by user" should be changed to "equal or more ranks in spell lore skill".
  - for 1 realm: then allow a RR. It will dispell a "level X" spell for that realm.
  - generic: then allow RR with positive bonus for the attack spell.

I really love this book but for ritual magic once osed and tested, but not for bad explained or incomplete, is for overpower.

[Nders]

What really you don't like about EC?

First of all it's written for RMSS.
Second the concept of training packages needs reworking to fit RMC if they are to be used at all.
Third almost every single spell list in EC are copies of RoCo lists and those that are not are too poorly written to be printed with good conscience.

Spell research: not covered by other books.

Wrong: covered by spell law.
Magical ritual is covered in both alchemy companion and RoCo III respectively.

The new professions are reeditions of old ones as well only not as thoroughly made or interesting as the originals The one original profession: the mana molder was so poorly made that in the ten years I used the book I did not see even one single player choose it or even a single one of his spell lists.

The schools of magic was an interesting idea and could be reworked to something great

I see what you are getting at with the whole lesser firebolt and DS skill but then again: if you want to cast fire bolts - learn fire law! it's 4/* for a pure spell user to learn other base lists within their own realm - at least according to Rm2 spell law and spell users comp.
Using the single spell learning system I am sure those first six ranks to get to the firebolt are well worth is

In a new EC I would like to see:
New takes on magical languages.
New takes/options on ESF.
New uses for spell mastery for RMC (I really like the ones from Arcane companion)
New CC style options for directed spells.
New classes, Hybrid and Semi particularly.
New spell lists (obviously)
Scaled attack tables for the various new lists that now use bolt I: shock bolt, bolt II: Water bolt and bolt III/IV: ice/fire bolt (the two bolts are at the same power and same level, the whole concept of differentiating their level on the bolt III/IV spells is ludicrous and needs reworking) Also because the original attack tables take into account what type of matter/energy is used in the attack and the new scaled spells do not, i.e. bolts of solid ice attack in the same way as bolts of light which is fine if the attack tables are made for it bust silly if you use the original attack tables.
New rules on learning spells e.g. spell books scrolls etc.
Cultures for magic using societies (from EA)
Maybe new magical skills.

[pastaav]

What really you don't like about EC?, IMO is one of the best books

The problem is with one word...overpowered

There are different types of imbalances...some types allow minmaxers to have field day and these are typically because lack of playtesting. The more subtle problem is when the individual rules are consistent and well tested, but that nobody took the time to think over how the rest of game fairs if Essence is given so many new toys. I think Essence Companion suffer from the latter. It could have been so very good, but small details makes it mostly end in headaches for the GM to solve.

If we go into details...

• Schools of magic: Great concept...but even with RMSS the Catalyst casting styles are superior. It give such a massive power point boost that I have trouble seeing anyone taking the other ones if they have a choice. Actually the default suggestion is that these schools are only open for essence users, it is recommended that semis and hybrids and other realm users not be given the choice of using these but instead be stuck with the less powerful standard spell casting rules. I am not very impressed by the reasoning...
• Ritual magic: Massively powerful and rigged so that essence effects is easy to make, while the other realms are hard to use in ritual magic. Problem is just that professions like Mystic, that by all reason is all about using rituals, suffer lots from this. A more reasonable set up would be to have own realm to be simple to use and cross realm casting very difficult or impossible. Of course the power level of ritual also need fixing.
  
• Familiars. This is something that already exist from the Spell Law spell list Gate Mastery. The Essence Companion familiar is of course lots more powerful. The familar can serve as power point sources, give electrical criticals to anyone that dares to attack the familiar, share damage and resistance with owner, communicate over many miles, turn invisible, summon the owner up 1000 miles. Basically this is one closed spell list that give access to a massive number of talent like effects. The downside is that you suffer minuses if the familiar is not present, but I am not convinced this balances all the benefits. A more proper treatment would be redoing the true familar idea as a dedicated profession that need to pay a more reasonable number of DP for all the benefits...
• Professions. The runemage is okay I suppose even though no player has ever been interested in taking it. On the other hand I am skeptic about some of the high level spells...Cryptics for instance sound like a very bad idea.
  The Warrior Mage is a bit too weakened down to survive combat I would say, on the other hand the base lists are really ridiculously broad with everything from gas-lungs to detections spells. Why all these spells that does not match the profession concept and only seem to be there to help the character to avoid buying the already existing spell lists?
  The Manamolder...parry is very important in RM and the idea to have a profession that create Mana Warriors that charge in and are unable to parry is dubious at best. The level 15 spell give a Mana Warrior that has 80 in OB, AT16 and 100 hits, so we are not speaking about some harmless little illusion, more like Russian roulette. When we add the spells that allow the Manamolder to create essentially any needed tool I start to wonder what campaigns that does benefit form having this profession around.
• Spell lists: Lots of useful spell lists that are added as Open and Closed lists. The combined number of them and the fact that so many of them are powerful makes essence into a much more powerful realm than the other realms. The player should IMHO have to sacrifice something extra to get access to more spell list to chose from.
  Pretty many of the spell lists are very powerful...Magic Staff for instance is a pretty awesome spell list, why should not every essence user take it? Matter Molding is pretty interesting to compare against how many spell lists the Mystic need to do the same tasks. Water Mastery allow the spell caster to be immune to physical attacks, half damage form elemental attacks (unless electrical) and still attack with magic. The same spell list also allow the caster to sink just about any ship. I could go on for long...Essence Companion really has a large number of spells that require lots of houseruling.
  

- specific spell (as currently), it automatically dispell the specific spell, but the "known by user" should be changed to "equal or more ranks in spell lore skill".

That is pretty powerful...what is wrong with the study approach of the current spell list that at least makes this list harder to use?

- for 1 realm: then allow a RR. It will dispell a "level X" spell for that realm.

You mean a bit like Arcane Wizards set up spell shields to protect themselves...but with much long duration and making the protection not require an active movement by the caster like the Wizard must do?

- generic: then allow RR with positive bonus for the attack spell.

So...it would be like an weaker version of an ordinary dispelling sphere, but have much longer duration, right?

All in all I think some of your ideas is pretty interesting, but it sounds like baselist or a TP list and not like something that every essence user should be able to access. Of course you mileage may vary.

[Fenrhyl Wulfson]

I've read the two latests posts.

I'll just say that using all spell companions (arcane, essence, channeling and mentalism) I never had any "overpower" problem. Never, like in "I never had any player complain", "I never had to tune anything down" and "everybody has always been happy with my games". I might add "people enjoyed any profession they played".

Speaking about the essence companion, if you factor in the tedium of finding and preparing catalysts, the fact that your players should never, at any rate, be casting spells here and there on a whim (failure + corruption points + nasty things that feed on magic - try using a crafty and double-dealing succubus to manipulate one of your spellcasting PC, it's fun!), the tedium and cost of finding spell lists (teachers or very, very expensive books + guild fees or favors in order to gain admittance) I'd say the book is balanced.

Sure, rituals are powerfull. Costly too. So if the PCs have the means to use rituals whenever they need, you just gave them too much money or power.

Sure, spell lists pack quite a punch or are really usefull. But the book itself goes on for a good deal of pages about guilds and the protection of what they consider their secrets. I don't know for your game, but in mine, PC can't enter the building, pay a fee, spend their DPs and ZAP! know exactly how to cast familiar, staff or elemental magic spells. They have to earn the right to learn these lists, or steal the knowledge.

The professions are actually quite resourcefull. The warrior-mage, in the hands of a player who understands his trade is not full frontal combat but mobility and speed, is actually quite dangerous, as long as he has PPs. The runemage needs preparation, time and planning to use his abilities, so I am okay with the degree of power his high level spells can pack. The mana molder... well played, he can be a nightmare for his foes. I used this profession for vilains. Players always got rid of them using movement spells to get near him and slay him. Before they do this, they were handed their "precious ones" on a silver plate (accompagnés d'une fricassée d'oignons et d'un consommé de poulet, avec sa sauce). Basically, each of these professions trade blatant weaknesses for specialized powerfull spells. Maybe the RMC version won't follow this path, we'll know when we read the book.

Sure, catalysts were giving free PPs. But you don't have to put components or catalysts sellers in every town. Have the PCs look for them. It should be the number one goal of the essence catalyst spellcaster. If you make it too easy for them to use cataslysts, you are giving free PPs to the PCs. YOU, not the rules.
Don't forget the social implications of catalyts! Someone hanging around with jewelry aplenty is bound to be a trouble magnet. Animal body parts should not be sold on every corners of any town or village (well, except for very common ones)... really powerfull catalysts come from fantastic beasts. As such, they should be rare, expensive and maybe sold only on the black market. Plus, the PC should roll for finding the proper catalyst in his many pockets, purses and bags whenever he casts a spell in a tense situation or in a hurry (usually quite the same).

Familiars... well. To put it simply, not only the maluses when the familiar is away ARE a pain for the caster (can't have any of the benefits AND has some maluses... funny when the spellcaster's PP are below 25%) but the death of a familiar is devastating for the caster. Basically, ball spells, gas traps, water hazards or simply a foe that realizes what the animal around the caster really is spell D O O M in fire letters for the familiar owner.

Last, the EssCo was just a toolkit. Don't want something, don't use it. I expect the RMC version to be just the same and I'm fine with it. The book was not perfect, but it is one of the best optional rules book I've read. This approach allowed me to build a complete magic system for RMSS that is unique and well oiled and everybody who've played one of my games enjoyed it.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

quick note: This is a conversion of the RMSS Essence Companion to RMC. It will not be adding/changing anything other than what is required for the conversion.

[dutch206]

Fenrhyl Wulfsson:  Have a laugh point!  

they were handed their "precious ones" on a silver plate (accompagnés d'une fricassée d'oignons et d'un consommé de poulet, avec sa sauce)

 

I watch enough food network to follow that without translation.  Brilliant.

[Fenrhyl Wulfson]

quick note: This is a conversion of the RMSS Essence Companion to RMC. It will not be adding/changing anything other than what is required for the conversion.

Excellent news!

[Nders]

quick note: This is a conversion of the RMSS Essence Companion to RMC. It will not be adding/changing anything other than what is required for the conversion.

So very sad but I get that it is much cheaper that way.
Hope you'll consider making a Essence companion II then.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Hope you'll consider making a Essence companion II then.

We will always consider projects, especially if somebody is willing to do up a proposal and send it to us.

http://www.ironcrown.com/index.php?page=cinfo/proposals

[Nders]

I think I just might do that but I am working on this other thing atm so you may have to wait a while

[Zachary The First]

I'll be thrilled to see an Essence Companion for RMC.

I'd love to see an Arcane Companion for RMC, but imagine with having to likely rework all that, it'd be more of a heavy-hitting project!

Still, a man can dream....that he dreams of RPG supplements is sort of sad, but that's another topic entirely.