Topic: 3-D printing miniatures

[Ginger McMurray]

Preface: I know next to nothing about 3-D printing but I'm a technical person so I figure I'll get up to speed quickly.

Does anyone use a 3-D printer for making miniatures? I'm not sure what model to buy or if it's possible to buy templates for them online somewhere. I definitely can't design my own!

[Siltoneous]

Don't own one yet either, but I do follow the technology a bit.  One of my favorite mini crafters (usually props like houses, trees, buildings, terrain, etc...) recently dipped his toes into 3D printing miniatures.

Making and Painting Custom Miniatures with @Hero Forge
https://youtu.be/iB0ZJ2DzzJo

Hope this helps:

Silt

[jdale]

Hero Forge is now moving into printing full color miniatures. They've got a Kickstarter going for it currently. They also sell 3D models so you can design your miniature but then download and print it yourself (not in color though). I'm waiting for a friend to run some test prints on his SLA printer.

[Spectre771]

I've been printing minis all winter long.  There are several variables to it but the single most controlling one is the quality of the model you are using.  Not the printer model... the actual model that is being printed out.  The more polygons included in the model, the better it looks.  The larger the file, the longer the print time.  But high polygon count doesn't automatically = great print.  It comes down to the attention to detail the creator put into the model.  I do not design my own models, I pull them all from ThingiVerse and there are some beautiful ones there.  (I've also printed a couple of stunning dice towers.  Kudos and tons of thanks to the folks who took the time to make those models!)

The next defining factor is the quality of the print you want to run.  It ranges from rough to fine.  Fine prints at .05mm (or less) layer height up to .4mm layer height.  I do all of my prints in Draft Quality which is .2mm layer height.  Two tenths of a mm is not thick at all, but it is considerably noticeable on poor quality models.

Beyond that, the rest is the options and settings you put on your printer, speed, flow rate, temperature, heated bed, cooling fans, etc.  Those really are a wash as once you find settings you are happy with, you don't mess with them any more.  One factor that can truly make a difference is the angle and position of the model on the printer bed.  I have a great example of this in that I had to print one model that was skewed at 45* angle for best results.

I can try to post pictures of the models I've printed so you can see the difference the quality of the model makes.  All of the settings are identical for each print job, however the outcome is clearly NOT identical.  I have a Tevo Tarantula that is very modified and upgraded but I've run the same print against friends who have higher grade printers (one does 3-D printing as a source of income and advertises on E-bay) and the print jobs were identical because it comes down to the quality of the model.  I was having an issue with one model so I asked my buddy to run it on his printer and he had the same results.  So we went to the third friend (the semi-pro printer) and he has the same issues.  He went further in trying to repair and re-code the model, run it through another app that looks for possible issues and re-codes the model further and the end result was barely noticeable. 

For printing scenery, landscape, objects, they're fantastic.  Minis it will be hit or miss and definitely the quality of the model.  Some models just aren't worth the time or filament to print, some are beautiful.

Hero Forge is now moving into printing full color miniatures. They've got a Kickstarter going for it currently. They also sell 3D models so you can design your miniature but then download and print it yourself (not in color though). I'm waiting for a friend to run some test prints on his SLA printer.

Yes, I want to look into this.  It will come down to what the cost is for them to print the items.  I'd love to have interchangeable weapons for the minis if a PC decides to switch to a different weapon.

[jdale]

In the Kickstarter, color printed miniatures are $40. It will probably be more on their site. But that's something like twice the cost of a regular print, which honestly isn't bad if the color quality is good. The pictures suggest they would benefit from a wash and drybrush, but that would still save a lot of time.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/heroforge/full-color-custom-miniatures-with-hero-forge-20

[Spectre771]

In the Kickstarter, color printed miniatures are $40. It will probably be more on their site. But that's something like twice the cost of a regular print, which honestly isn't bad if the color quality is good. The pictures suggest they would benefit from a wash and drybrush, but that would still save a lot of time.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/heroforge/full-color-custom-miniatures-with-hero-forge-20

Absolutely fascinating.  There are filament printers that can handle 7 colors of filament, but the higher quality prints are resin printers.  I wonder how they are doing colored prints.  They do mention that they have painters who will hand paint to match your model.  That's pretty awesome.  My painting skills are abysmal.  That alone could be worth the $40 for me!

[jdale]

Their hand painted figures are a lot more than $40, it's the 3d color filament printed ones that are that price. They do mention there will be lines visible if you look hard enough. It's still amazing though.

I'm ok at painting but, at my current rate of getting figures done, my backlog is several lifetimes long....

[Ginger McMurray]

more useful info than you can shake a stick at

Thanks!

About how much does it end up costing per miniature? Not including the price of admission in having to buy a printer in the first place.

[arakish]

This is the easier and less time consumptive method.  I have always enjoyed the relaxing, calming, tranquil effect of hand carving them myself out of various substances ranging from incredible soft plaster, to incredibly difficult steel.

One day I plan on getting a 3D printer and play with it.  Right now, too dang busy up in Yellowstone with the new outpost we built.

rmfr

[Spectre771]

more useful info than you can shake a stick at

Thanks!

About how much does it end up costing per miniature? Not including the price of admission in having to buy a printer in the first place.

I've never worked out the cost of material per print.  I only use Hatchbox Filament because of the quality control and reliability of their product.  Lower grade filaments have diameter variances that can jam and mess up the extrusion.  I have one filament that is brittle and has snapped laving with no filament feeding at all.  etc.  So Hatchbox filament is about $23 - $28 per 1kg spool.  The software I use has the option to determine the cost per print.  I can enter the cost of the spool and the program will estimate the volume of filament used and give you the cost per print.  (One spool lasts a really really long time though.)

3D printing has been around for a while now and the cost has dropped considerably and competition has grown quite a bit.  Even sticking with the popular name brands (Creality, Prusa, Makerbot) you're looking at about $200 for a really nice set up.  A lot of them now are plug and play with little to no configuration and set up. 

Beyond that, you're looking to what special upgrades and bells and whistles you want to add.  Dual extruder, heated bed, additional cooling fans, multi-filament support, etc.  Where my printer was about $200 out of the box when it came out several years ago, I have probably another $200 (equivalent) in upgrades over the years.  Once you have the printer... you can print upgraded pieces for it without paying extra.

[Ginger McMurray]

I've never worked out the cost of material per print.  I only use Hatchbox Filament because of the quality control and reliability of their product.  Lower grade filaments have diameter variances that can jam and mess up the extrusion.  I have one filament that is brittle and has snapped laving with no filament feeding at all.  etc.  So Hatchbox filament is about $23 - $28 per 1kg spool.  The software I use has the option to determine the cost per print.  I can enter the cost of the spool and the program will estimate the volume of filament used and give you the cost per print.  (One spool lasts a really really long time though.)

Is there any chance I can trick you into doing that for me on a basic mini? I don't tend to buy miniatures, so going all in on a 3-D printer is a big purchase but could easily be worth it. I'd like to know what I'm getting into.

Once you have the printer... you can print upgraded pieces for it without paying extra.

How does that work? It seems like a bad deal for the printer manufacturers.

[jdale]

I'm pretty sure the print costs for filament printed standard figures are in the tens of cents range, or less. Of course you have to print a lot of figures to recover the cost of the printer itself. Resin prints are more expensive (but cleaner prints) but I'm not sure how much so.

[Spectre771]

I'm pretty sure the print costs for filament printed standard figures are in the tens of cents range, or less. Of course you have to print a lot of figures to recover the cost of the printer itself. Resin prints are more expensive (but cleaner prints) but I'm not sure how much so.

Absolutely correct, but there are lots of downsides to those printers too.  The biggest one for me - the toxic fumes of having a pool of melty plastic.  Cost for a resin printer, changing the print color, the size of the model that can be printed.

For printing minis, they are super.  But cost, model size, and the fact that I'm just a hobbyist user, the cost is not worth it for me.  I still lie to look at them though.

Once you have the printer... you can print upgraded pieces for it without paying extra.

How does that work? It seems like a bad deal for the printer manufacturers.

Using my printer as an example.  I upgraded the MOSFET board.  I printed out additional strengthening brackets for the frame to keep the frame even more sturdy.  I printed out a spool and brace system that mounts on top of the frame so the filament feeds straight down into the extruder rather  than running from table surface, up the gantry, then back down again into the extruder.  This eliminates twisting of the filament.  I printed out a fan diffuser that attaches to the fan and redirects the airflow across the print better.   I printed out a bracket to mount a 2nd cooling fan.  I added a second z-stepper motor to keep the gantry from sagging when the print head traveled to the extreme edge.  The brackets were printed for the motor, the axle, and end mount.  I printed end caps to cover the sharp edges and to keep wires from snagging.

That's the beauty of the printer.  If you need it, print it.  You can get different types of filament depending on your needs.  PLA is the basic plastic stuff.  There's graphite, wood, brass, glow in the dark, high temperature plastic, food grade plastics, etc.  You can make really pieces if you have a special application.  The wood prints are my favorite.  I've gone through 2 spools of wood filament.  I printer out a bunch of dice boxes as Christmas gifts.  They sand and stain just like wood.  They look beautiful when stained.  I made a business card holder of Atlas holding a globe for a buddy.

To print an Orc Warrior mini, 1" base, approx 2" = roughly E0.08  (It's in Euros.  I couldn't find the setting to put it in USD. LOL)  8 cents for the print, but that was without support structure.  Some models require support structures for overhangs or long distances.  My printer and print a line 3" horizontal without support but it's not super clean.  If that surface were going to be visible, I would print support structure for it so it's a much smoother surface.

Where is a good place to host picture?  I'll post some pics to make it easier to see the points I'm referring to.

[Ginger McMurray]

Feel free to drop any pics here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1haFSYi6_i-o3NJs4TMBCEx7CpTo9n5Ib?usp=sharing

[Spectre771]

* - When in Google drive, click to see the entire pic.  Google drive only shows a partial thumbnail.  There are full length dice tower pics.

Pics have been uploaded.  I did not create any of the items, I merely printed them.  All respect, consideration, and credit goes to the original creators.  I may have tweaked settings for better prints, but I do not take any creative credit for the items, other than where I started painting and staining the items.  These items (99.99% if not 100%) of the items are on Thingiverse.com  If you are having trouble finding them, let me know and I'll try to get you the file name so you can locate more easily.

All of the prints are in Draft quality, 0.2mm layer height.  I did the Draft prints to see which ones I like and I will probably run the prints again at 0.1mm for better quality.

Alphabetically sorted in Google Drive:

Atlas:
Wood filament print.  Light and dark wood stains and grey stain.  Approx. 7" tall. The slot is cut in the globe to hold the business cards.  (Shameless promotion.  Atlas Computers)

Bone Golem:
Grey PLA filament.  This is the model that needed to be printed at 45* angle with supports.  The extended arm needed to he horizontal to allow for a decent print. I love the way it came out with the lace wisps so I left them.  It looks like ethereal smoke wafting off the creature.

Dice Boxes:
Wood Filament.  Various dice boxes I printed out for Christmas gifts.  I tried to stain each one a little different from the others so they'd be unique.  Some have gloss, some are just stained.  Some are mixes of light/dark stains.  Each lid is a different design.  I printed about a dozen of them.

Dice Prison:
Wood filament.  For when your dice decide to triple fumble on a most crucial attack to prevent the downed fighter from being killed.  Working door, multiple stains.  It looks fantastic in person.

Dice Tower:
Grey PLA filament.  The grey is the perfect shade for stone.  I may brush some stain to bring out the shadows and I'll probably paint the front gate.  This is a combination of two models.  The original tower is supposed to use a clear 1.5 litre bottle cut to fit the spiral staircase.  Sadly.... it's impossible to find a 1.5 litre, clear bottle, that does NOT have molded creases in it.  Another modder created the stone wall cylinder to fit the spiral staircase and it looks amazing.  I added LED lights in the interior.

Multi Tower:
Grey PLA filament.  This is one of my favorite.  The deep cup holds the dice (upper).  The shallow cup (bottom) holds one or two minis.  The tower is 3" diameter and can be used as a tower on a map.  The top can be used as a coaster for your drink.

Scenery:
Grey PLA filament.  I have several scenery pieces that look fantastic.  Cavern walls, cavern arches, spiral staircases, cavern arch with wooden door, pillars, thrones.  Great stuff.  The 3D printer excels at the scenery bits.

Sorceress:
Grey PLA filament.  I haven't cleaned the print yet, so you can see some "lace" wisps still stuck to the model.

Spiders:
Grey PLA filament.  These came out really well.  I'm still in the process of painting them.  The larger one needs more work and washes.  The smaller ones are probably as much as I'm going to do on them.

Support Structure:
Grey PLA filament.  These prints show the support structure that's needed on some prints.  Hidden in that mess is a warrior holding a battle axe and a warrior holding a halberd.  Cleaning the structure is going to be difficult because the shaft of the weapon is not too strong.

Tevo:
Colored PLA filament.  These are the various upgraded pieces added to the printer.  The green prints are for the new extruder mount, fan mount, and fan diffuser.  The blue prints are the PLA spool holder.  The reddish prints are the strengtheners and MB mount, stepper motor mounts.

Tool Caddy:
Transparent PLA filament.  Which doesn't stay transparent once printed, still looks nice though.  Took 28 hours to print but it looks nice.  I'm going to put an LED light inside it to make it glow.  It should look awesome.

Treant:
Grey PLA filament.  This one I painted to near completion.  Just a couple of washes I'd like to add to it to make it look dirtier from the soil.

Troops:
Grey PLA filament.   Some of the troops I've printed.  All different authors created them.  Some look better than others with identical printer settings.  I haven't cleaned any of them as I'm still working on the spiders. Some of the columns can be seen in the background.

Wyvern Tower:
Grey PLA filament.  This was a Christmas gift for another friend.  I had to slice the model into four parts to print it.  I could probably get away with two parts, but I get leery running a print that large.  If something fails, that's a lot of filament and lots of hours lost.  One of the prints was 19 hours, another was 13 hours, another was 9 hours, and the fourth part was about 9 hours.  In two parts, nearly a day's worth of printing is at risk if there is a jam, clog, knock off, or any other random act of cosmic interference.


I ordered a model from Hero Forge and it's ready but I haven't printed it yet.  Can't wait to see how it comes out.

[Ginger McMurray]

Wow, those are great! I just added "3-D Printer" to my list of things to buy. do you have recommendations for minimum specs I should be looking at? I don't need a super high end professional one but also don't want to screw up and get one that's too low end to do the job.

I didn't know Hero Forge sold models. I thought they only did the minis themselves.

[Spectre771]

The Hero Forge "1" website has several options for them to print and a digital download option as well.  It was $7.99 for the download and there is an amazing amount of customization available.  I chose Female, elf, warrior, noblewoman's armour (to simulate AT 6), steel whip arcing over her head, 2-H Sword on her back, and an attacker pose.  There were even more options such as rings, back packs, bag of loot on the base, etc.  Pretty cool.

As for printers, if I decide to get a new printer, I'm going with the Crealty Ender 3.  I've seen some amazing prints from it and it was recommended by the semi-pro printer guy I worked with.  There is a Crealty "Pro version" $40 more.  It was $100 more when it first came out.  It wasn't worth the upgrade in price at that time.  At $40 difference now, maybe it's worth the upgrade.

The Prusa i3 MK 3 is fantastic.  Two of the guys I work with bought them.  One had his autographed by the designer. LOL.  I've watched the Prusa in action and it's fantastic.  Really nice removable print bed, SUPER FAST! printing, fast heat up time.  But you're talking a jump up from $188 to $800!  If I had the cash, I'd drop it on the Prusa in a heart beat, specifically because I've see it in action.

Features that I really like and would look for are heat up time.  Yup that's it.   I just get impatient waiting for the heat up LOL

OK,  Heated bed, cooling fans, size of print bed, and z-axis height.  Those are the big ones.  Printing minis doesn't require a big bed, but you'll inevitably find items you want to print that are large and you'll wish you had the larger bed so you don't have to split your models and glue them together.

I prefer to have the gantry/printhead move up the z-axis rather than having the print bed move down away from the print head.  The less movement you have on the print bed, the better.  You don't want the print to wobble or tip over.

Whichever you choose, for a first printer I would stick with a name brand.  There's no reason to cheap out to go for a generic when the name brands are so affordable now.  Crealty, MakerBot, Prusa all have great entry level models.  At the very least, go for a mid-range model for the brand you decide to go with.  You'll have more get and get more use out of as you learn all the little aggravating things you haven't run into yet. 

[Ginger McMurray]

Thanks a million! I'll be sure and come back to post once I've had my first excursion.

[Spectre771]

Thanks a million! I'll be sure and come back to post once I've had my first excursion.

I'll be really jealous if you get the Prusa!!!  What a sweet printer it is.

Can others see the pics I posted on the Google Drive?

[Ginger McMurray]

Thanks a million! I'll be sure and come back to post once I've had my first excursion.

I'll be really jealous if you get the Prusa!!!  What a sweet printer it is.

Can others see the pics I posted on the Google Drive?

They should be able to. It's a "anyone with the link can use it" type of link.