Topic: "Changing" spells: target's clothing & equipment?

[Ecthelion]

Hi,

in our recent session we had a discussion about how to handle the different changing spells (Change to Kind, Animal Form etc.) The main question was how to handle the target's clothing and equipment. E.g. some of the Changing spells allow taking the form of a specific person. Will that include the clothing and the equipment that specific person is currently wearing/carrying? If so, and if the person I want to change into is carrying a magic sword, will I then have a "copy" of that sword? Could I give it to someone else? Or would clothing and equipment not be included, so that I better care about my clothing for my dwarf form before changing into a small dwarf?

Personally I would tend to say that the "Changing" type of spells only manipulate the target's body while they do not affect the clothing and equipment of the desired form. So I should better take of my cloths before changing into a giant unless I want my shirt torn like it happens to Hulk all the time. And if I want to appear as someone else, including clothing and equipment, then I need to use a "Facade" type spell, which uses an illusion effect. This is nice to assume the desired form including all gear, but it can be detected because it is not a true change but only an illusion.

But we had different opinions on this topic and I'd like to hear opinions of you guys here. Thanks in advance.

[jdale]

RMSS doesn't say at all. RMU does say in a note on the spell list (for Living Change) that items worn and carried are excluded from the spell. However this doesn't seem completely thought through, as there is a 9th level spell Change Self True which does change items "held or carried" but doesn't mention items worn.

While it makes sense for the spells to affect only the body, the durations seem pretty short for that at 10 min/lvl. If you are casting a spell that only lasts 30-50 minutes and you have to spend time at the beginning and end changing clothes, I don't know how much use you'll get out of it. You could rule that it also resizes (but does not otherwise change) organic worn items, so clothing and leather armor but not metal armor, and also not weapons and carried tools, contents of backpacks and pouches, etc.

[Nightblade42]

I sort of think of the Change spells (especially those where the caster or target take the form of an animal) like that scene in the first Harry Potter where Ron & Harry are late for Prof. Magarnikle's (sp?) class.  They walk in relieved because she doesn't seem to be there, just her cat.  Then the cat morphs into the Professor & they are scolded by their tardiness.

In other words, the clothes morph with the body of the target.  I think going the "Body only changes" certainly falls on the realism side of RM, but I truly believe the Harry Potter Morph is better for the ease and fun of play.

As for magic items, I would rule that the item would look & feel like the real thing, but none of the item's powers would be available to the wielder.

Nightblade ->--

[OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol]

I think it should only affect the body, in order not to open a can of worms about all the cases to manage otherwise. I mean, how far goes "worn equipment"? Does it mean someone may go through security whilst wearing full plate armour, a shield, a polearm and a fully loaded basket on his shoulders by merely casting a level five spell (Change to kind) to take the form of a person only wearing clothes? Or that burglars may load themselves with stolen goods, turn into a dog and voilà! they're now unencumbered? I'm also against items held being transformed, or we'd get cases where people armed with a fork would suddenly be wearing an halberd because they "changed" into an halberd-helding guard! Adding the three (worn, carried and held) would allow a person wearing a shirt and a fork to suddenly be wearing a full plate armour, a shield and an arming sword, carrying bags full of useful (even if, at least, not magical) items… Also, if one "changes" into a banker (or the guy who just left carrying a bag full of gold, who is the guy one wants to impersonate, if you prefer), would one's bag full of cheese turn into a bag full of gold?
Etc.
IMO, allowing the change of the items worn, held or carried has too much potential for abuse. Since avoiding all of them is easy by ruling only the body changes, I'd go with it.

[Ecthelion]

Thanks for all the input