Author Topic: Tuesday Topic - Shields  (Read 3984 times)

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Offline Thom @ ICE

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Re: Tuesday Topic - Shields
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2015, 08:41:10 AM »
The WORST way of recreating combat-styles is by looking at movies. Everything in a movie is dictated by how it looks, not by if it works. Real fights make bad pictorials so directors do not use it.

I am going to assume that your intent here was to say.... The WORST way of recreating combat-style if you want authentic, historically accurate modeling, is by looking at movies.    With that assumption in place, I disagree that it's the WORST, but do acknowledge that it is not the best.

That being said - I never indicated that I wanted an authentic, historically accurate modeling... I want something fun for my players to enjoy.  I want the same thing that those movie directors do excitement, and simplicity.


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Jdale has the right of it: using 2 weapons or a shield & weapon gives such a huge advantage that using a cloak as a shield/ weapon was preferable over wielding just one weapon.

Guess what... if all you had was a sword and a cloak in my game, I want you to use the cloak to disrupt your opponent's attack.  It adds fun.  I would not allow it to be very effective (soft cover and unless trained in using it no real parry capability), but I would applaud the player who had their character do that.

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The advantage lies in being able to control the opponent's weapon and getting out of the way to get in one's own strike.

And therein lies the issue I have with HARP's shield rules.  In HARP you gain either some shield bonus or full shield bonus (a 15-25 point DB bonus depending upon your shield type) after spending 10 DP.  The assumption here is either you know how to use a shield or you don't.  Everything else in ICE games is skill driven, but Shield is an on/off switch gained by a talent.

You are also making an assumption that the 2-weapon combo costing would be kept the same as it is now.  In HARP right now 2 weapon combo is handled by gaining skill in A, gaining skill in B and then gaining skill in A/B.  Why not have the A be the sword, B be the shield, and then you need to invest DP in developing the sword/shield combo?  If it is deemed valid for using a long sword, short sword combination - why not a sword/shield combination?

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Another factor in one's defense is training. In later periods, such as the late medieval period, martial arts had come a long way: Attacks, master strikes, counter strikes to that. Basically a musketeer would have a field day in ancient Rome: he would be able to deal with and have a deadly answer to anything a Roman sword master could come up with, due to tapping from a martial history that included the Roman traditions. Even a Norman knight would beat a Roman soldier and not because of equipment, but because the Roman tricks of the trade are the Norman's basics.

Seen as system in RM; I could allow martial traditions use parry more effectively than earlier counter parts. Whether this is a penalty or a fraction for the disadvantaged (such as a Roman's parry is just 50% effective against a Landsknecht attacks) or a bonus/ factor (The Spanish conquistador gets a +20 bonus on any parry when fighting an Inca Jaguar soldier) for the more advanced party.

I have no argument against this other than to say, if you want a realistic based RPG then you need to make those adjustments and limit the weaponry/skill sets to fit your setting.  If you create a mixture of cultures and weaponry/skills in a melting pot of a setting, you may not want to go to that level of detail - otherwise there is an opportunity for major min/max gaming.  Of course, you may want that as a way to show a certain clan/guild/alliance is better trained and armed.... it's up to you.
Email -    Thom@ironcrown.com