Author Topic: Conversion MERP to HARP  (Read 7748 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline WoeRie

  • Adept
  • **
  • Posts: 321
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Conversion MERP to HARP
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2013, 06:51:03 PM »
But maybe you should consider to give a number of fate points for each gaming session, instead of buying them with DP (which weakens a character on the long term).

I don't have any rule for this, but we normally play so that characters may not buy Fate Points, they can only acquire new ones by heroic or epic successes. Sometimes even trying something heroic (even if it fails) can grant a Fate Point. Therefore, a noldo will begin his adventuring career with just 1 Fate Point. His actions can give him a maximum of 3 Fate Points, however.
This is not as in the RAW, however it is exactly the same way as I played them in my Echoes of Heavens campaign. My players received fate points if they followed their fate as THEY had described it (and/or their religion dictated it). My players were not allowed to use DP to buy FP.
I assume that a lot of people are using house rules for Fate Points given for their actions/gameplay rather than simply by DP, but as Ecthelion already wrote, using the original rules the benefit would be quite small.


I don't know RuneQuest 6. Could you explain how the idea is developed there?
The brand new RuneQuest 6 gives you 2-3 Fatepoints for each gaming session (so absolute meta-gaming), regardless if the session goes for 8h reallife, 10 years game time, or whatever. You get a fix number of FP (called Luck Points). I was afraid that my players would use them only at the end of the session, but somehow it seems to work fine (though I tried it only once, yet).

Offline Falenthal

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 100
  • OIC Points +0/-0
    • La Compañía
Re: Conversion MERP to HARP
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2013, 04:21:40 AM »
I assume that a lot of people are using house rules for Fate Points given for their actions/gameplay rather than simply by DP, but as Ecthelion already wrote, using the original rules the benefit would be quite small.
I agree with that. It struck to me when I saw that a Fate Point was considered just 5 DP worth. To me it's the difference between life and death, and that doesn't come cheap. As said, I don't allow FP to be bought, they must be gained through gameplay, taking risks in heroic tasks. I consider them like the Force Points of West End's D6 Star Wars. Otherwise, with the core rules in hand, Ecthelion is totally right.

The brand new RuneQuest 6 gives you 2-3 Fatepoints for each gaming session [...] You get a fix number of FP (called Luck Points).
I don't give points regardless of the actions of the players. They have to gain them.
To make an example, in my adventures I always try to introduce a situation where players can just succeed in their mission (rescue the kidnapped traders), do really well (also recover the stolen caravan) or be extremely succesful (and finish off the bandit's leader, ending the menace of raiders in the region). The difficulty is scaled so that, to accomplish the later, they must be really lucky with the dices, come up with a brilliant plan or use their Fate Points. Managing to kill the bandit's leader would make them recover all spent Fate Points and, maybe, gain an extra one for the player who dealt the killing blow (the one who can boost about it, at least  ;D).

Ecthelion, regarding to your comments, I have to agree with you.
As said, my rules try to give a certain balance between races, but it is on porpouse that elves are somewhat better than the rest. To be true, in my rules I consider them somewhat better, while for you they are Übermenschen. ;)
 The Fate Point difference is a way of balancing that, given the limitation I impose to gain them, and I consider that the equivalent of the lesser background points of MERP. Also, note that I said that there's a maximum of FP per race to prevent an elf of ever neutralizing this difference (it's not in the document, sorry, it's a newer addition). A Noldo can never have 5 FP, while a hobbit does.
Forcing elf characters to use their higher rolls in the Presence stat could be acceptable, too.
Lowering some bonuses (+5 to RRs against cold instead of +15, for instance) is also acceptable if you think that represents the idea of Middle Earth elves you have.
And regarding to how elves can overcome the (little) flaws they have by spending DPs, well, that's the point. They have to spend DPs to overcome them while other races don't. So if they spent 10 DPs for Fate Points (let's let aside that I don't let FPs to be bought) and 10 more to get Skill Specialization and the 5 ranks, they're spending nearly half their DPs.

But well, in general terms, I must say that the huge difference between your view and my own is that I don't mind elves being better in game terms than the other races and you do. That's okay and, like I said, it's an argument I had with myself as well. I consider that noldo should be above all others in scholar and artistic skills, or silvan in archery and nature-lore, if they choose so. But in other aspects (burglary, melee combat, RRs,...) they are, more or less, in equal terms.
Even so, you made me think about certain aspects that could lesser a bit elven advantatges, like making each race pay a reduced DP cost for the talents (noldo-scholar, sinda-skill spec, silvan-speed loader/outdoorsman) instead of giving them for free.

I'll take another look at your blood talents document, as I acknowledge you made some good points in your critics. Thanks for them and your time.

Just one question: On a quick glance, do yout think the same about the other demi-human races (dwarves and hobbits)? Or do you see them as more acceptable?

Offline Falenthal

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 100
  • OIC Points +0/-0
    • La Compañía
Re: Conversion MERP to HARP
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2013, 05:09:28 AM »
One idea that I still have to flesh out and think more about is to use the training packages instead of free talents or bonuses for some cultures/races.

for instance, Noldo wouldn't get the Scholar talent for free. Instead, if they come from Rivendell or Lindon, they can get the Tyrian Sage (Rivendell Sage in my rules) training package during character creation, paying the usual DPs. Other races, cultures not coming from these refuges can't learn them from the beginning. Equally, sinda or silvan elves from Mirkwood or Lorien can learn the Asthotian Archer training package during creation. That would represent them having the best teachers and facilities in these areas (libraries, best bows, etc.), but making them spend DPs for them.
On the other hand, only dunedains or lesser dunedains could get the Rangers of the North/Ithilien training package, or rohirrim the knight one.

As said, I have to think it over, but I guess it could give them some advantatge if they use some DPs for it.

Offline Ecthelion

  • ICE Forum Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,497
  • OIC Points +0/-0
    • Character Gallery
Re: Conversion MERP to HARP
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2013, 05:11:45 AM »
Just one question: On a quick glance, do yout think the same about the other demi-human races (dwarves and hobbits)? Or do you see them as more acceptable?
Dwarves and Hobbits look just fine. There seem to be only small changes in comparison to the original HARP dwarves/halflings with only small effects to balancing.

Offline Ecthelion

  • ICE Forum Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,497
  • OIC Points +0/-0
    • Character Gallery
Re: Conversion MERP to HARP
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2013, 05:14:13 AM »
The idea with using Training Packages instead of free talents sounds good to me. In the same way the initial talents and stat bonuses could get a DP number assigned, so that a player who wants to play e.g. a Noldo has to spend more initial DPs in order to be allowed to play a member of that race.

Offline Falenthal

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 100
  • OIC Points +0/-0
    • La Compañía
Re: Conversion MERP to HARP
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2013, 09:14:30 AM »
I've been working in the document with Ecthelion counsels in mind, as I found them very accurate.

Among some lesser things (added the eket short sword, took away some bonuses for rohirrim and lesser dunedains, changed the beornings malus from -1 AG and RE to -2 RE,...) I took special care to look closer into elves.

After some searching in Tokien's work, I couldn't take the bonuses away if I wanted to be true to what's in the books. It is specified in passages of Lord of the Rings that elves have no fear for the ghosts of Men [Paths of the Dead], or that they heal faster or that they can walk without further protection among snow storms [Pass of Caradhras].
But balancing that in the game mechanics was a problem. As said, following Ecthelion's advice, I set a cost of DPs upon character creation for elves. Trying to find a non-mechanical argument, I came up with the following:
•   Elves, due to their immortality, do not receive a strict or formal education during their childhood years. At least, not beyond what every elf should know (i.e. the adolescence ranks). Therefore, from the initial DPs received during character creation, a Noldo should subtract 30 DPs and a Sinda or Silvan 25 DPs.

Also, the talents are now not free, but they just get a 5 DPs discount.

As always, comments are well met.
I hope you enjoy it!

Offline Falenthal

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 100
  • OIC Points +0/-0
    • La Compañía
Re: Conversion MERP to HARP
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2013, 04:54:41 PM »
The (I hope!) last version of my Middle-Earth to HARP adaptation rules.
Do as you please with them, and any comment is really welcomed.

Includes rules for travelling in Middle-Earth and maps for it.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/narpmec57g0genp/HARP_-_Middle_Earth.rar

Offline DrykeMLB

  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Conversion MERP to HARP
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2013, 04:18:12 PM »
Hi to you all.
I'm new with the forum and HARP system too.
I have played D&D, AD&D, for ten years until I met MERP (in its Italian version GiRSA). After another twelve years I stopped in 2008 and now I finally started to play again with a new group (MERP again). I bought HARP manual and I was searching for some aid to convert the system...
I'll take a look to the files... Many thanks!

Offline DrykeMLB

  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Conversion MERP to HARP
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2013, 04:46:12 PM »
And... What about the precious materials by Mando?  :)

Offline Falenthal

  • Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 100
  • OIC Points +0/-0
    • La Compañía
Re: Conversion MERP to HARP
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2013, 02:21:52 AM »
Hi to you all.
I'm new with the forum and HARP system too.
I have played D&D, AD&D, for ten years until I met MERP (in its Italian version GiRSA). After another twelve years I stopped in 2008 and now I finally started to play again with a new group (MERP again). I bought HARP manual and I wags searching for some aid to convert the system...
I'll take a look to the files... Many thanks!

Your history sounds a lot like mine!
I hope you'll find my documents useful. You'll see that they are more a Harp adaptation to Middle-Earth than a Merp to Harp conversion.
As for Mandos documents, they're truly great. I'm sure you can PM him and he'll send them to you if he doesn't show up around here soon.

Ciao!

Offline Ecthelion

  • ICE Forum Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,497
  • OIC Points +0/-0
    • Character Gallery
Re: Conversion MERP to HARP
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2013, 11:30:44 AM »
I created an article for TGC a while ago for using HARP for a Middle Earth setting. You can find it here. I tried an approach with minimal changes via HARP's Blood Talents and tried to keep the races balanced, as they were in HARP previously.