Topic: 2nd row missile/thrown

[markc]

 As per the rules a 2nd row combatant with a pole arm can attack without penalty. Should not thrown and missile weapon users also gain this benefit? 
  As a House Rule in my game I do have a penalty for firing through melee combat, but I think that I might do away with it for people in row right behind the main battle. I also might require some more time to not have any penalty than the normal % action. ie take an extra 10% to not have any penalty if you are in the 2nd row of combat.   


Thanks
MDC

[Lord Garth]

This one we house-rule too. We give 2nd row missile (and directed spells) a negative partial cover to their attacks. They gain the DB bonus, but at a cost.

I've toyed with the idea of having bad rolls hit the first row, but in the end I haven't come up with a sufficiently quick way to resolve this in a way that penalized offenders in a sufficiently homogenous way. i.e. A low level bowman firing from behind a player has a higher chance of adding ventilation holes to a fellow warrior than an expert one. The idea would be to have the number of ranks developed in ranged/directed spells affect somehow the chance of hitting the first row if the attack missed the intended target.

Perhaps a mechanism could be:

If attack utterly misses (ie is negative) by X. 100+|X|-Ranks-Level. If number is over 100, attack hits 1st row.

[Kristen Mork]

FWIW, I require special training to attack with a pole arm from the second rank.

In any event, the ability of a second rank to attack with missile weapons depends (greatly) on whether the archers are aiming at targets (a small angle relative to the ground) or shooting volleys (at a larger angle).  In the first case (the norm for RPGs), the ally would get in the way.  In the latter case, you should be able to shoot from the first, second, third, etc. lines.

[providence13]

Do defenders get Qu stat bonus vs an arrow volley?
Since it targets an area, I'm thinking.. they don't.

[jdale]

I don't think it makes sense for a second row archer to have no penalty. But it does make sense that you could wait for an opportunity until there is a clear shot. So in game terms, spend more activity to cancel out a penalty on the roll.

[providence13]

I give archers +10/100%Act; +30 mx for 3 rnds aiming. This assumes a fairly stationary target or at least one you can easily sight.
This is extra time aiming after you would have normally shot.

Alternatively, you could lower the DR for missile Ambush. Game mechanics are stacked against you while Ambushing with a bow. 

[yammahoper]

Do defenders get Qu stat bonus vs an arrow volley?
Since it targets an area, I'm thinking.. they don't.

you may want to look at suppression fire rules in FireArmsLaw.

[Nortti]

I think firing from the second row is something that should be practiced together by the soldiers that make the formation. The warrior in front could make just a little way and freeze for a second so that archer can fire. This applies to close targets. Firing area fire volleys should not be a problem for a less trained formation.

The movement that H&H warriors in the front make are naturally erratic during combat as they try to make it harder for the opponent to hit them. Thats also why own archers behind them have a risk of shooting the own guy in the back. They need to have some sort of agreement or a practiced method for the front guy to make just enough way so that archer can have an opening to fire.

For regular soldiers that train together this should not be a problem. For a hastily put together militia it could. A regular force that has taken casualties and has been receiving replacements from another half-killed unit this could also be a problem, unless there is a universal training method for the whole army (training manuals). Adventurers that know each other well and regularly fight together should be able to do this, like guys that have been playing football or ice-hockey for a long time know each others thoughts.

Depending on the situation there could be more or less chances to have an opening for a shot. In heated H&H combat there would not be much time for aiming, but when the pressure in the front eases a bit it should be easy. I would give an OB penalty of -10 to -40 depending on the combat situation. There could be another roll that the archer can make to see if he has an opening. Roll could be based on QU+IN or just be a 50/50 roll for simplicity. He could still fire without a clear opening but he would risk shooting his fellow soldier in front of him. I think that on fumble you always would have a 50/50 chance of just shooting your pal on the back or just having a regular fumble from the table.

[rdanhenry]

The only cases I can think of that actually mixed missile and regular hand-to-hand infantry were formations where the guys with the polearms were just there to keep the cavalry from overrunning the musketeers while they reloaded. They weren't expected to actually attack together. There were similar situations with some individual battles with bowmen as well, but again, the melee troops were there to protect the position of the archers, not to make a coordinated attack. Generally the units were separate. It might work if you had a substantial height difference... Troll crossbowmen behind Dwarven axemen might do just fine.

[Nortti]

I agree. For example X-bowmen have been taking cover in the middle of a hollow pikemen square but that is a defensive formation. I can imagine how nasty it would be to charge against such formation.

Pike and shot formations were formed of pikemen and arquebusiers (for example tercio).

Italians had a spearman with large shield (pavise) to accompany an x-bowman. These avoided melee of course.

In a fantasy setting it is easy to make combinations at least for defense. With strong and mobile elf-archers this could work. 

[Lord Garth]

Ah yes, the Tercios. Not a battle lost in almost 200 years would indicate a winning strategy indeed …

In a game such as Rolemaster where anything can kill you in no time, simply the possibility of not being attacked for one round while you can fire your bow or crossbow is already a huge boon.