Topic: 300-strategy in RM?

[DangerMan]

I bet most of us have seen the movie(s) called 300, depicting the battle of Thermopylae. Here a small amout of elite soldiers take a stand against impossible odds, using a narrow mountain pass to their advantage.

Would such a strategy work in RM? What sort of composition of PC / NPC (lvls / professions) would it take?

We recently decided not to test it, in a small cave, playing the Palantir quest (MERP), using RMSS/FRPP. Im thinking the odds of recieving a critical / odds of it being deadly make for poor chanses. However, some smart players, with the right OB/DB/lvl advantage and some clever ideas might pull it trough?

[Cormac Doyle]

Setting aside the film ... you are aware that the "300" only counted the Spartans? The actual army included close to 6000 "slaves" who fought along side the Spartans.

(Also for historical record ... after previous Spartan battles that ended more successfully, the Slaves that had demonstrated their combat prowess most successfully would be hansomly rewarded ... by being EXECUTED!!! The Spartans were always deathly afraid of a revolution by their slaves who outnumbered them c. 10:1 ... so if there was a large contingent of battle-hardened slaves, that spelled certain doom !)

[Cormac Doyle]

As to the strategy ... once you add in the "slaves", the Spartans certainly did have sufficient numbers to close off a small choke point for an extended period of time (but as is recorded in history - once they were flanked, they were wiped out to a man).

[providence13]

But if we're talking only whats displayed in the film, I believe that RM rules could be used to justify some of the maneuvers.

I don't have much time, heading to work, but here's a quick rundown.

1. Cover: Interlocking shields could actually provide Full hard cover for those inside and pretty good Partial cover for those on the outer edge of the turtle formation.
Or, there is a pretty good rule in a RoCo about adding the DB of shields if 2-3 guys have them in a line, against that facing.

2. Massive combat skills: The portrayal in the movie shows warriors that excel in combat. They always seem to know where an enemy is within their combat reach. Sit-Aware Combat, Two-handed Combat, Shield Bash, Reverse stroke (to add OB/DB to rear attacks).
You could also use Reverse stroke to add OB to rear attacks.
Pretty good Tactics as well. The entire group gets an OB bonus.

Awesome Adrenals from SD and even Power Attacks, for some.
Then there Stun relief and skills to lower crits from attacks..

These may be obvious to everyone but just some thoughts.

[Nders]

A group of high level fighters with shields and spears - that allow for attacks from behind the frontline without the wielder of the spear being target could in RM be able to do what wee see in the movie. The frontline would need to parry a lot and fight defensively whereas the second line could be as offensive as allowed by missile fire. As Cormac Doyle pointed out - it's all a matter of avoiding beeing outflanked.

In the movie we see unarmored Spartans fighting of the hordes of Xerxes. In RM this might prove difficult without any armor but if you allow for adrenal defence to be used with spears and shields then maybe. I think the historic Spartans would've worn armor

also using CC or other options for arms use may modify this situation.

This is considering that there be only fighters involved. If we add other classes as Clerics or Magicians - to just one side - this makes it even more likely to succeed.

The Romans fought a combined army of Pontics and Armenians numbering an estimated million with 50.000 and massacred them.

[markc]

  I think using the MAC or CC with RMSS would be a good start and from there you could modify some of the abilities for Combat Styles to be more inclusive of the Spartan style of combat.
MDC

[Ynglaur]

The Romans fought a combined army of Pontics and Armenians numbering an estimated million with 50.000 and massacred them.

Which battle was this?

[Ynglaur]

Interlocking full shields = +25DB, no position bonuses for the enemy.  Rear ranks push forward ranks, meaning various criticals around losing position can probably be ignored.  AT18 + metal helmet is decent.  Long weapon tends to give initiative bonus.  Rear ranks of enemy soldiers pushing their fellows into you probably gives you a bonus to your OB.

Interestingly, many ancient battles were massacres.  Armies would basically push each other for a couple hours until one side broke, and then the real killing began.  This was one of the differences of the Greek phalanx: it had the tendency to actually kill large numbers of foes on first contact, which was extremely demoralizing.

[Cormac Doyle]

Yep ... but a fixed formation battle (which is how the spartans survived for so long) looks boring on TV, so the film had the spartans "breaking" on first combat.

[RandalThor]

I say: No. All the historical information aside, RM is deadlier than RL. Also, I believe that shields in RM (barring some special "maneuver" in CC) aren't as effective in RM as they are in RL. In RM it is very silly to try and take on opponents that out number you 2, 3, or 4-to-1, not mention what it was there - even with a "choke-point".

Unless, you all are level 30+ and the opponents are 1st level. You might be able to last a while then.

[markc]

  I also think that there might be some info in War Law to help you out but as I have not had my soda yet I am a little fuzzy on just that it is. But trained troops with a good battle plan generally defeat trained troops with a poor battle plan.
MDC

[Ecthelion]

In RM it is very silly to try and take on opponents that out number you 2, 3, or 4-to-1, not mention what it was there - even with a "choke-point".

Unless, you all are level 30+ and the opponents are 1st level. You might be able to last a while then.

It is certainly seldom a good tactics to challenges two or more opponents in RM. But from my experience a 10th combat-oriented character with e.g. +15 equipment or so is able to win against two or three NPCs of level 1-3 with normal equipment, as long as he can avoid being flanked or getting attacked from the rear. We sometimes had such fights against typical orcs from the ICE modules and it was not really a problem. We are power-gamers though, with characters capable of lasting in combat. But even in groups with more standard characters it should be possible IMO to challenge more than one opponent at once well before reaching 30th level.

[Nders]

@ Ynglaur: I do not recall the name. It was commanded by Lucculus in his attampt to march on Parthia. The project watered out before reaching it's destination due to politics and intrigue.

[Faustized]

300 is a great movie and one of my favourites!

I think that the first problem is that in RM you cannot use a shield and a polearm, but if you are GM ( and GM can change the rules XD)and can permit it form background;i think that  phalanx strategy will be a good tactis with "second line fighting skill", this skill must be developed by all spartans , the line in front will use shield bash defensively versus incoming enemies while the seond line will attack without being engaged with great advantage.

Then you can add some cover as Ynglaur was saying.

[markc]

Faustized;
 What is XD?
Thanks
MDC

[providence13]

I would totally allow someone to use a shield and a spear. There is a historical precedence, IIRC.
One handed Edge-Spear or javelin would cover it for me.

[GrumpyOldFart]

Faustized;
 What is XD?
Thanks
MDC

I think it's an impromptu smiley, like 

If it helps, I always found it amusing that Windows XP was basically Windows 

[providence13]

It is good to keep in mind that the movie 300 was based on the comic book 300, more so than real life.

[markc]

Faustized;
 What is XD?
Thanks
MDC

I think it's an impromptu smiley, like 

If it helps, I always found it amusing that Windows XP was basically Windows 

 Thanks, a lot I forget the old way of doing smiles as I never used them. I am not a big social media fan but I can see the use in bis a lot.


 Yes when you say Windows you are tec. referring to the old dos version or visual dos version as I like to call it. And all of the big changes are behind the screen, so to speak.   
Thanks
MDC

[RandalThor]

We are power-gamers though, with characters capable of lasting in combat. But even in groups with more standard characters it should be possible IMO to challenge more than one opponent at once well before reaching 30th level.

I want to play in your games! I am sick of running a low-level/weak character. To be fair, I did have a 7th level fighter take on 2 orcs at once. Of course, I was very sneaky, got the jump on them, and it was still a tough fight - but fun.

But in the instance of 300, in RM it would be nigh-impossible.