Topic: We never parried

[phydaux42]

Back in the day my old RPG group switched from D&D to Rolemaster.  We just LOVED it, particularly just how deadly the combat was.

Every book said that players should always use some of their Offensive Bonus to parry.  We never did.  Usually our fighter-types would carry two weapons and all-out attack twice per round.  Our idea was "Two hits is two crits."  That's two chances to get a "Stunned and unable to parry" result.  NPCs would all-out attack every time "out of desperation."

What are the thoughts from you long-timers regarding regularlt making all-out attacks?

[David Johansen]

Not parrying is largely responsible for RM's undeserved reputation for being too deadly.

[yammahoper]

No parry can take you a long way, until you get hit good and hard.  No parry works best with higher AT's because there is a built in DB that increases the to hit number to achieve first crit.

PC's in no armor NEED to parry.

Ideally, a fighter type should be looking to parry with just enough to require attacks against him to open end to crit him. 

[Usdrothek]

When PCs and NPCs trade all out attacks, sure the players might take down their foes quickly. How long before one NPC gets a killing blow in return?

The player attrition rate should be well above average if this behaviour is the norm.

[markc]

What about monsters that cannot be stunned? Or suffer reduced crits?
MDC

[Marc R]

Yeah, the undead and trolls tended to be rough on no parriers in our group.

[phydaux42]

When PCs and NPCs trade all out attacks, sure the players might take down their foes quickly. How long before one NPC gets a killing blow in return?

The player attrition rate should be well above average if this behaviour is the norm.

That there was.  lol!

We always made sure someone was playing a Priest.  Also, Stun Relief spells & items were highly sought after.

[Ynglaur]

Yeah, the undead and trolls tended to be rough on no parriers in our group.

LOL

[Vector Z]

Parrying? Pffft! That's for NPC's

[pastaav]

The funny thing is that with using the exp-rules as written it makes sense to not parry in encounters that the group is likely to win provided you have healing to enough to be saved after combat. I had a campaign when we made sure the group had superior healing available and the fighters leveled faster than everyone else due to experience gain of taking heavy damage.

[Ynglaur]

I think one of the keys in Rolemaster combat is planning.  A stand-up fight is not what you want.  Ambush, deception, and generally stacking the odds are a much better approach, imo.  Do you know what people remember about a fight?  Whomever won. 

[Marc R]

I tend to agree there, the closest I've come to RM "Feel" in another campaign was a game of AD&D where we all played magic users, engaged in a long running competition to win a prize. . .where often the easiest way to win was to make sure someone else lost. . .often permanently. . .with everyone playing a cannon mounted on an eggshell, there was a lot of that feel of "whoever can get one solid shot in first wins the fight" which made for a lot of tense roleplaying. . . .and a lot of dastardly planned out betrayals.

RM is like that all the time, casually. . . .people tend to be a lot more cautious about risks. . .even when you have the party that can afford most injuries, you still need to worry about having your whole body incinerated, your soul destroyed, or your brain splattered, which though rare, still make for "you got a 50th/100th level spell to fix that?"

[DangerMan]

Hello, my name is DangerMan, and I dont parry!

"Hello DangeMan!"

Its been seven fights since last time and didnt parry..

"Applause"

Long time ago I as good as always parried, except every now and then, at rare occasions, I went full OB. But it felt so sweet, that full out attack.. Then I started to do it more and more, until the point at which I never parried at all. For a long time I denied it, telling myself I didnt need that doodoo. I was totally oblivious to how it affacted my co-players - them having to spend precious power points healing me up, and endless hours watching me making new characters when my last one had perished...

For so long I disapointed my friends, wasted my gaming carreer, and all I got was this lousy nickname....

[Vector Z]

I don't know what you're talking about DM. I know that I, for one, have no problem with not parrying. I can start parrying any time I want. I just don't want to, that's all!

[markc]

In a low power game you almost have to parry at 1st level or things can go bad real quickly.
MDC

[Marc R]

I tend to learn crossbow, then make sure to get into PB and getting that first shot off.   

[markc]

I tend to learn crossbow, then make sure to get into PB and getting that first shot off.   

 That does help a lot.
MDC

[Marrethiel]

The funny thing is that with using the exp-rules as written it makes sense to not parry in encounters that the group is likely to win provided you have healing to enough to be saved after combat. I had a campaign when we made sure the group had superior healing available and the fighters leveled faster than everyone else due to experience gain of taking heavy damage.

LoL, this brings back memories... I remember not attacking an Orc because it had no exp left in it. A couple of low rolling E crits... funny rules. Or when playing the party healer and picking up a cross bow and firing into melee so I could get exp. The party had two choices, put up or lose a healer.
It is no wonder we dropped the exp rules ages ago... it is now just, "you've adventured enough, have a level."

[Spectre771]

I know this is an old post, but it brought back some great memories.

We never parried until our hit points started dropping lower and lower.  Then it became a battle of attrition.  "I go full parry."   That's when you knew the PC was running very low on HP and that he was trying to stave off the killing blow.

The bosses and captains in the campaigns always knew to parry.  How else did they live long enough to reach that rank?  Simple.  They parried.  The PCs couldn't hit them, and they were just worn down and worn down until they caught on... Hey, he's been parrying for the last 5 rounds.  Damn it, I should have parried too.

To address the comment about RM being "deadly".... Most crits have at least TWO ways to kill a PC (or damned near close to it).  That's what made it great!!!  Sign me up for RM any time of the day.

High 90+ or 100 roll

AAAAAAAAAAAAAND...

66!

What other game system lets you kill a PC/NPC with a "mediocre" roll.  We used to pray for the 66 on the crit roll. 67?  Awwww crap.  Garbage damage.  Ever see a PC die from a 66 A-Crit?  It's funny as hell!  (Even when it is your PC that's dying, it's still funny.)

I still preach to this day.  In RM, it's not the HP that kills you, it's the crits.  Every other game system I've played, it's death by HP.  <yawn> Pound away, pound away, pound away.  OK, dead finally.  There was never accounting for the "really really good killing blow (96-99 crit roll), or the really really dumb-luck, lucky strike (66 crit).  Hey s*** happens sometimes.

You have 235 HP and don't want to parry?  OK. 

"E-Cold Crit = 99: Foe is a lifeless, frozen statue – well preserved, but quite dead. Add +10 to your next roll. +20 hits"

You took very low concussion hits, but you're frozen solid and quite dead, in the very first round of battle.  I have been playing AD&D and Pathfinder for over a year now and every single battle I am biting my tongue and hurling curses that there is no way for my PC to parry, to defend, or to otherwise counter an attack.  AC 16... that's it. Suck it up buttercup.  Low on HP?  What to parry?  Too bad.  AC 16.  The Orc Captain with the 2H club that he can wield in 1 hand?  Sucks to be you. AC 16.  Want to curl in a little ball and hide behind your shield because the mage is about to cast fire ball at you?  Yup. AC 16.

Maybe it's sour grapes on my part.....  No.  There's still no way to parry.  At least RM allows the option to parry, but that's the catch.  It's the OPTION to parry.  The newbies barely did it. The Veterans knew to throw a little bit into DB, usually around 30-50 points.

[Hurin]

Characters rarely parried in most of my games.

Combat was so swingy that many felt that a good offense was better than a good defense, much like what the OP said. Really, is another 30 points of defense going to help you when your attacker rolls a 97 + 68? He's pretty much assured to max out the chart. Far better, in many characters' minds, to stun your attacker and stop him from getting that attack altogether.

It would be an interesting experiment, though, to crunch some numbers on this. What are the odds that parrying will be better than trying to knock your opponent out via a stun or kill? I would like to see those numbers.